End of perimeter line missing

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arhi
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:00 am

Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby arhi » Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:57 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Please give this a try, print with complete loops inisde the model and see whether you still can find the defects on outer shells or not. That can show whether the issue is related to the inconsistant loops inside the model or it is due to something else.


I will try right away. Btw I got exactly the same print problem with simplify3d.
I'll try now to allow low % for the gap so it can print a whole inside loop.

Back in few minutes :D

arhi
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:00 am

Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby arhi » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:20 am

Hm, still a problem, even with 10% as min extrusion and full "circle" between the two external perimeters
Untitled.png


The holes are still there only not as "long" as earlier, so the nozzle was "not as empty"
(left - short is the new one with full line between perimeters, right - tall is the old, with only few spots between the perimeters)
Untitled1.png

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:11 am

Here are some settings we feel may affect the result:
1. Disable the retraction before layer change
2. Increase Outer Shell Wipe Distance
3. Decrease retraction

arhi
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:00 am

Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby arhi » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:05 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Here are some settings we feel may affect the result:


thanks, I really appreciate you helping me debug this.

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:1. Disable the retraction before layer change
3. Decrease retraction


tried, disabled retraction before layer change, then tried disabled retraction completely, no noticeable effects on the "holes" - some effects on the seam on the top of the cylinder where it's thicker (and where the holes does not show)

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:2. Increase Outer Shell Wipe Distance


Interesting; I tried reducing then disabling it (no effect). I did not try to increase it :). I'll try to increase to see how will that change the print.
Will try this later today (5am now I don't trust myself to do any debugging at this hour).

The only thing that visibly affects the issue is the gap filling, changing gap filling settings change the visibly size of those holes.
As I mentioned, tried with S3D, got identical holes.

p.s. this issue with preview ignoring offset is really getting on my nerves, can you point me to a "wishlist/feature request" submission for IM ?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:17 am

Would you like to advise about more this issue with preview ignoring offset? Any picture or video or files can show the issue?

arhi
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:00 am

Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby arhi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:02 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Would you like to advise about more this issue with preview ignoring offset? Any picture or video or files can show the issue?


Imagine your printer is configured so that 0,0 is in the center of the bed and not in bottom left corner.

You configure IM with "Advanced Settings / Global Offset":

Untitled.jpg


You then import an object and position it on the bed (already here the origin does not show it moved from the bottom left corner):


Untitled-1.jpg


You then slice, the g-code properly print in the middle of the bed but preview show the print in the bottom left corner:

Untitled-2.jpg


so, the G-code is generated ok, the object prints on the bed in the middle of it, but preview shows it as the 0,0 is bottom left ignoring the global offset.

maybe there's another offset I need to set for the printer where 0,0 is in the middle of the bed, dunno .. this is rather weird to find it in the "template" configuration and not in the "printer" configuration but I take what I can :)

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Leo
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Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby Leo » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:18 am

I'm curious. Is there a reason the printer is configured that 0,0 is the center? This is not standard for a xy core printer style like the Ender.

arhi
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:00 am

Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby arhi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:51 pm

Leo wrote:I'm curious. Is there a reason the printer is configured that 0,0 is the center? This is not standard for a xy core printer style like the Ender.


When you have only one printer it's not too big of a deal. When your end switches are close to bed also not too big of a deal, but if you venture from there origin at the center of the bed makes lot more sense.

You configure your firmware that the center of the bed is 0,0
You configure your slicer that the bed is width,height around that same center

Normally I reslice the object for every printer, but less work required if they are all 0,0 in the center of the bed, otherwise you have to reposition all the parts for each printer..

I started configuring 0,0 to be center of the bed when I moved to duet electronics. I was reluctant at first but after a while I don't see me ever going back to 0,0 in the corner

arhi
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:00 am

Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby arhi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:16 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Here are some settings we feel may affect the result:
1. Disable the retraction before layer change
2. Increase Outer Shell Wipe Distance
3. Decrease retraction


disabled retraction and increased outer shell wipe to 3mm (was .5 or .1) and no visible changes between two rings.
I used up all that "silver" (more like sh1t but) color petg so now have some translucent so video is useless you can't see anything.. nor I can take images it's impossible to take a picture of this, need to find some non-transparent filament for that, but looking under magnifying glass I printed one ring normal and one ring with 3mm wipe no retraction - holes are identical in shape and size :(

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:44 am

arhi wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Would you like to advise about more this issue with preview ignoring offset? Any picture or video or files can show the issue?


Imagine your printer is configured so that 0,0 is in the center of the bed and not in bottom left corner.

You configure IM with "Advanced Settings / Global Offset":

Untitled.jpg


You then import an object and position it on the bed (already here the origin does not show it moved from the bottom left corner):


Untitled-1.jpg


You then slice, the g-code properly print in the middle of the bed but preview show the print in the bottom left corner:

Untitled-2.jpg


so, the G-code is generated ok, the object prints on the bed in the middle of it, but preview shows it as the 0,0 is bottom left ignoring the global offset.

maybe there's another offset I need to set for the printer where 0,0 is in the middle of the bed, dunno .. this is rather weird to find it in the "template" configuration and not in the "printer" configuration but I take what I can :)

1. ideaMaker currently doesn't support selecting the center of the printing area as (0,0), except round build plate. We have received similar request before, it has been added into developing list.
Global Offset doesn't affect model interface. Because Global Offset will add the offset value for each position after slicing into code directly. So in preview mode, it won't show.

arhi wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Here are some settings we feel may affect the result:
1. Disable the retraction before layer change
2. Increase Outer Shell Wipe Distance
3. Decrease retraction


disabled retraction and increased outer shell wipe to 3mm (was .5 or .1) and no visible changes between two rings.
I used up all that "silver" (more like sh1t but) color petg so now have some translucent so video is useless you can't see anything.. nor I can take images it's impossible to take a picture of this, need to find some non-transparent filament for that, but looking under magnifying glass I printed one ring normal and one ring with 3mm wipe no retraction - holes are identical in shape and size :(

2. Normally the hollows are caused by retraction and coasting wipe. If you haven't enabled either one, then it should be related to the too thin extrusion lines due to the narrow gap in middle. Try scale the model up to make the extrusion lines in middle to match with the extrusion width you set and see whether the result is better or not. If it can fix the issue, then it means the current size nozzle can't print such thin extrusion lines with no issue.

arhi
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:00 am

Re: End of perimeter line missing

Postby arhi » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:56 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:1. ideaMaker currently doesn't support selecting the center of the printing area as (0,0), except round build plate. We have received similar request before, it has been added into developing list.


great, that's what I wanted, to submit a feature request but if it already exists... :D

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Normally the hollows are caused by retraction and coasting wipe. If you haven't enabled either one, then it should be related to the too thin extrusion lines due to the narrow gap in middle. Try scale the model up to make the extrusion lines in middle to match with the extrusion width you set and see whether the result is better or not. If it can fix the issue, then it means the current size nozzle can't print such thin extrusion lines with no issue.


Yes, I know, normally... but as I have seen this is not a normal situation, and it is not IM related (I get identical issue with S3D only with different width of the wall, probbly 'cause IM vs S3D calculate extrusion width differently, or I just have different configs, irrelevant for this discussion). I was trying to figure out what empties the nozzle that much. My guess, after hours of looking it print and changing different stuff, is that when I'm ordering it to under extrude through the 0.6mm nozzle and "stretch" the filament the PETG pulls on the filament trough the nozzle from the melt chamber emptying it. I noticed for example if I do a little bit of extrusion and wipe the head using silicone blade the extrusion starts immediately next it is ordered, on the other hand, if I extrude a bit and get the filament from nozzle with tweezers I can pull, and pull, and pull for a while stretching the string from the nozzle, and when I then order extrusion it takes a while before the filament start exiting nozzle.

I found two "solutions" here, one is to turn the gap-fill off, that works for these cylinders but is not a very good solution for general parts, or to increase prime value, again, works great for this cylinder (not as good as turning off gap fill) but again terrible for normal parts :(


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