N2 Y Axis not working

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pearson222
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N2 Y Axis not working

Postby pearson222 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:30 pm

Hi there -

I have a weird issue where my Y axis stopped working. I have replaced the Main Board, ALL stepper drivers and the motor itself - still nothing. I get no errors or anything to aid in diagnosis. Any suggestions?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:53 pm

Have you tried to swap the drivers on X and Y?
If the motors are enabled, are you still able to move the extruder in Y direction?

pearson222
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby pearson222 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:46 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Have you tried to swap the drivers on X and Y?
If the motors are enabled, are you still able to move the extruder in Y direction?


Yes, the extruders/gantry move freely in both axis with the motors disabled. This is not a mechanical issue. When jog or home commands are given through the touchscreen the Y axis is totally unresponsive. The homing process will only move the X and Z axis. I am wondering if something has shorted out in the system that I have not already replaced.

I have already replaced: main motion controller board, ALL stepper drivers, Y axis motor.

zemlin
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby zemlin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:57 am

How 'bout if you swap X and Y motor cables on the controller board. It could be a wiring issue. You won't want to let an axis plow into the limit switch, but you could start a home from the middle of the bed and quickly kill power when things start moving.

If you swap cables and Y doesn't move while X does, then it's probably the wiring to the motor - not likely the motor since you've already replaced that. If Y does move and X doesn't, then it's something prior to the motor cables.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:25 pm

Would you like to share some pictures of your motion board? We are thinking about whether the issue is related to endstop or not.

pearson222
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby pearson222 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:01 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Would you like to share some pictures of your motion board? We are thinking about whether the issue is related to endstop or not.


I will take some pictures of the motion board tomorrow and pass them along. The motion board is a brand new replacement from Raise3D that I had in our backup/spare parts storage. I double-checked that all inputs were in their correct places by referencing our other N2's motion board.

zemlin wrote:How 'bout if you swap X and Y motor cables on the controller board. It could be a wiring issue.


I gave that a try and still got no response from the Y-axis. It's suspicious that the Y-axis stopped working immediately after a coworker had checked the X and Y stepper drivers voltage with a multimeter... That is why I am wondering if there could be any other components affected if something shorted out at the motion board. I have seen shorts occur when a multimeter is set on an incorrect setting before and am thinking that might be the case here.

I wish I knew how to tag Jetguy as he would be wonderful resource to help troubleshoot this.

zemlin
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby zemlin » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:56 am

pearson222 wrote:
zemlin wrote:How 'bout if you swap X and Y motor cables on the controller board. It could be a wiring issue.

I gave that a try and still got no response from the Y-axis.


Can you clarify? You swapped the X and Y motor cables on the controller board.
You say no response from the Y axis - do you mean the MOTOR on the Y axis (which now would have been connected to the X axis output), or the Y axis output on the board - which was connected to the X axis motor?

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Jetguy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:59 pm

Just joining in on this since you asked.
I'm kind of at a loss trying to fix this remotely.

My first guess, the stepper driver is blown. They are fragile.
Second this is, you cannot and should not JUST go by where the potentiometer is on the stepper driver for orientation.
We just had someone blow yet another mainboard and all stepper drivers for that exact mistake when new stepper drivers didn't match original ones. I can't solve how to tell you the orientation, it's different for every stepper driver. I need pictures and details.

No pictures, we are just flapping in the wind trying to guess what is going on.
And Zemlin had a very good troubleshooting suggestion, so what's the status on that test? Good, not good, don't understand?
Where's a meter in all this to check at the stepper cable unplugged from the mainboard, basic 2 coil test for continuity. Pins 1-2 and 3-4 should show continuity to and THROUGH the motor coils. No continuity between 1-4, 2-4, 1-3, 2-3.

Again, you replaced the Y axis motor. Not smart IMO, unless I tested and 100% knew the OLD motor was damaged.
The new motor might have a different pinout and thus not be making the required correct connections and we are chasing tail for no good reason. Stepper motors rarely go bad. In fact, most bad ones are fixable. One moving part, no moving electrical connection, it's just 2 coils of wire and a connector. So replacing one just because it doesn't work is insane to me. Know why it doesn't work before spending $$.
Second part is, over time, Raise 3d like most manufacturers, didn't sole source components, so replacements might not exactly match between batches. They don't tell you this and gladly sell you the part. I'm also not impressed with their tech support who does try but ultimately they don't know when we get into some of these.

Like any 3 part system, we have to start somewhere and walk it through. Either start at the motor, do proper continuity coil tests and then the wiring harness and then, at the mainboard, if we have one known channel that works- say X, we know the motor checks out, the cable checks out, it should work in the channel driven by the known working driver. Then via process of elimination the other Y channel driver can be validated to be dead or alive. But again, caution on the replacement- do not assume anything as far as orientation. Pictures before power on for us to double check you.

pearson222
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby pearson222 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:57 pm

Hi guys - sorry for the delayed response.

Here is a picture of the Panucatt SD2224 X/Y stepper drivers installed on the mainboard.
Image

I have a second N2 Plus that I have been using to help troubleshoot components. I swapped in the SD2224 X/Y steppers and verified that they are indeed working and not blown.

I checked the continuity between pins on the motor. Pins 1-2 and 3-4 show continuity, and there is no continuity between 1-4, 2-4, 1-3, 2-3.
I also checked continuity on the motor cable - all leads show continuity.

I am at a loss for where the problem could be if the mainboard, stepper drivers, and motor are all tested and functional. If you have any ideas for further troubleshooting it would be much appreciated.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:06 pm

Something isn't adding up so here's what I can make out from what you posted.
I checked the continuity between pins on the motor. Pins 1-2 and 3-4 show continuity, and there is no continuity between 1-4, 2-4, 1-3, 2-3.
Sounds good to me and that is exactly what I would expect.
I also checked continuity on the motor cable - all leads show continuity.
Tiny bit unsure here, but hopefully what you meant was straight through, pin 1 to pin 1, all way up to 4, no crossing (2-3) as an example.

I'm just saying, one of the known pain in the neck alternate wiring problems that comes up is some motors are
1-3, and 2-4. You stated the motor is a 1-2, and 3-4, however, it's possible for crossed center pair wiring between the board and motor to cross one up resulting in no motor movement.

The board expected output is
1-2, and 3-4

Between the previous ask of just swapping X and Y motor cables position on the mainboard something still isn't right.
In other words, based on your wiring continuity tests, the motor and wiring is suspected good.
That means the board or the driver failed.
Cross testing- X plugged into Y and Y plugged into X normally indicates if the board and driver pair is good for a given axis.

So, I'm still likely at, something is wrong at the board, probably the stepper driver, but also could just be the board.
And this is an N series so the firmware and mainboard supports plugging in a reprap discount graphic LCD for direct readout and control of the motion board.
Just saying, you could then eliminate the touchscreen not sending gcode, but that just seems to be the most remote of all possible failures.

pearson222
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby pearson222 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:30 pm

Jetguy wrote:Between the previous ask of just swapping X and Y motor cables position on the mainboard something still isn't right.
In other words, based on your wiring continuity tests, the motor and wiring is suspected good.
That means the board or the driver failed.
Cross testing- X plugged into Y and Y plugged into X normally indicates if the board and driver pair is good for a given axis.


A few updates:

I swapped all of the Y-axis components (Stepper motor, driver and cable) over to the X-axis output on the Main Board to see if it functions...and it works fine. That tells me my Y-axis motor, cable and driver are good.

The only thing left would be the mainboard? Or does the touchscreen play into this somehow? The Y-axis is unresponsive through the touchscreen and also when attempting to print any gcode file.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:55 pm

No, I would think not, the touschscreen simply sends gcode commands.
If you see the distance increment on the screen, that indicates the command was sent.

You could damage a mainboard socket by accidently inserting a driver in shifted pins and power on, and the right scenario, that could/would then damage the mainboard. Normally I would expect it to blow the mainboard sky high, but again, lots of possible "what if" scenarios.

The other thing is, plug in a full graphic reprap discount LCD and just control the mainboard manually from it.
It gives you the actual direct firmware control- not secondary via gcode.
$12-$16 well spent long term. https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Printer- ... B07X378P8X

pearson222
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby pearson222 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:46 pm

Jetguy wrote:No, I would think not, the touschscreen simply sends gcode commands.
If you see the distance increment on the screen, that indicates the command was sent.


I just now replaced the mainboard with a second new replacement board and have restored control of my Y-axis. While testing the X/Y movements by jogging and homing from the touchscreen I have noticed that the travel speed is wayyy too fast... I reflashed the firmware and tested again with no change. Are there any settings that could possibly need to be changed since swapping out the Main board? Thank you for your time in helping me troubleshoot this remotely. I understand there is a limit to how much you can help without being on-site.

One step forward two steps back...

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:01 pm

My first thought is, hopefully you ALSO checked the microswitch settings under the stepper driver in the socket and ensured they were correct.
Why? Because speed is closely related to microsteps.
In other words, by default we are expecting a given number of microsteps.
If the setting is less, the the actual steps being moved is more. Microsteps sub divide a step.

Do a common sense check. Home the XY, tell it to move 10mm, measure how far it moved.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:05 pm


Jetguy
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Re: N2 Y Axis not working

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:08 pm

pearson222 wrote:Here is a picture of the Panucatt SD2224 X/Y stepper drivers installed on the mainboard.
Image


Hence how I was betting you failed to configure the new motion board correctly.


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