Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

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Jeff_Birt
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Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Sat May 08, 2021 8:30 pm

I used Matterhackers Pro Series PLA on my previous printer with good success. No feeding problems but the printer itself was not great.

I have printed a variety of PLAs on my new E2 with no issue and great quality. I cannot get Matterhackers Pro Series PLA to print worth a hoot though. Any area of the print with a lot of retractions causes filament grinding. I contacted Matterhakers and they thought that the issue was most likely heat creep and suggested lower bed temps, lowering extruder temp, opening front door and top of E2 etc.

I have tried all the above in addition to slowing down retractions, adjusting retraction set points to limit short retractions, etc. Matterhackers Pro Series PLA still will not print. I ordered in some Matterhackers Build Series PLA (cheaper) and just put a roll in and it works fine. This does seem like an issue with the Matterhackers Pro Series PLA softening and grinding during retractions.

Question is what else can be done to make it work? Feed pressure? Open to any ideas.

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Thu May 13, 2021 11:50 pm

Jeff_Birt wrote:I used Matterhackers Pro Series PLA on my previous printer with good success. No feeding problems but the printer itself was not great.

I have printed a variety of PLAs on my new E2 with no issue and great quality. I cannot get Matterhackers Pro Series PLA to print worth a hoot though. Any area of the print with a lot of retractions causes filament grinding. I contacted Matterhakers and they thought that the issue was most likely heat creep and suggested lower bed temps, lowering extruder temp, opening front door and top of E2 etc.

I have tried all the above in addition to slowing down retractions, adjusting retraction set points to limit short retractions, etc. Matterhackers Pro Series PLA still will not print. I ordered in some Matterhackers Build Series PLA (cheaper) and just put a roll in and it works fine. This does seem like an issue with the Matterhackers Pro Series PLA softening and grinding during retractions.

Question is what else can be done to make it work? Feed pressure? Open to any ideas.


Just to clarify what template are you using when you are printing with the MH Pro series PLA? Also, would you be able to attach the Gcode files of some models that have failed?

Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Fri May 14, 2021 3:58 pm

Steven@Raise3D wrote:Just to clarify what template are you using when you are printing with the MH Pro series PLA? Also, would you be able to attach the Gcode files of some models that have failed?


I started with the basic E3D PLA profile and changed parameters including: extruder temp, bed temp, retraction speed, retraction thresholds. I also printed with both the top and front door open. Nothing helped. I was able to print some very simple 'L' shaped brackets, they are far less detailed so there is not the issue with a lot of retractions. The symptoms are inconsistent printing, i.e. voids, filament grinding, etc.

As mentioned previously the MH Build Series PLA prints fine with the same problematic file using either the basic E3D PLA profile or the MH profile for this filament. I have attached my test file (.idea, .data, .gcode). I can't get to a computer to open this in Ideamaker but this should be the last set of settings I tried. I did not keep all versions of each test though. I can try to reprint this later today to verify if needed.

After reading several posts on this forum I found that some other folks had difficulties with a few select PLAs while most printed fine. Most problems seem to be related to heat creep, of course that is speculation on my part. Any help you could provide would be appreciated.
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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Sat May 22, 2021 1:15 am

Jeff_Birt wrote:
Steven@Raise3D wrote:Just to clarify what template are you using when you are printing with the MH Pro series PLA? Also, would you be able to attach the Gcode files of some models that have failed?


I started with the basic E3D PLA profile and changed parameters including: extruder temp, bed temp, retraction speed, retraction thresholds. I also printed with both the top and front door open. Nothing helped. I was able to print some very simple 'L' shaped brackets, they are far less detailed so there is not the issue with a lot of retractions. The symptoms are inconsistent printing, i.e. voids, filament grinding, etc.

As mentioned previously the MH Build Series PLA prints fine with the same problematic file using either the basic E3D PLA profile or the MH profile for this filament. I have attached my test file (.idea, .data, .gcode). I can't get to a computer to open this in Ideamaker but this should be the last set of settings I tried. I did not keep all versions of each test though. I can try to reprint this later today to verify if needed.

After reading several posts on this forum I found that some other folks had difficulties with a few select PLAs while most printed fine. Most problems seem to be related to heat creep, of course that is speculation on my part. Any help you could provide would be appreciated.


As our machines are fully enclosed they can be a little more susceptible to things like heat creep however, due to the design of the E2's hotend and cooling system it is very unlikely that this is the cause of the printing issues. Have you attempted to use the profile that we have available on our OFP for the MatterHackers build series PLA? (https://www.raise3d.com/compatible-filaments/) The settings are going to be slightly different but it could be a good starting point to build a template from.

Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Mon May 24, 2021 1:42 pm

Steven@Raise3D wrote:As our machines are fully enclosed they can be a little more susceptible to things like heat creep however, due to the design of the E2's hotend and cooling system it is very unlikely that this is the cause of the printing issues. Have you attempted to use the profile that we have available on our OFP for the MatterHackers build series PLA? (https://www.raise3d.com/compatible-filaments/) The settings are going to be slightly different but it could be a good starting point to build a template from.


I have been using the MatterHackers Build Series PLA profile you mentioned for their MatterHackers Build Series PLA and it works good for that filament. Still a bit of a retraction problem (I think) causing 2-3 random blobs/zits during a 3 hour print. I have tried systematically varying extrusion temp, bed temp, retraction speed, etc. to no avail.

I am a bit lost as to what combination of settings to try.

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Wed May 26, 2021 6:27 pm

Jeff_Birt wrote:
Steven@Raise3D wrote:As our machines are fully enclosed they can be a little more susceptible to things like heat creep however, due to the design of the E2's hotend and cooling system it is very unlikely that this is the cause of the printing issues. Have you attempted to use the profile that we have available on our OFP for the MatterHackers build series PLA? (https://www.raise3d.com/compatible-filaments/) The settings are going to be slightly different but it could be a good starting point to build a template from.


I have been using the MatterHackers Build Series PLA profile you mentioned for their MatterHackers Build Series PLA and it works good for that filament. Still a bit of a retraction problem (I think) causing 2-3 random blobs/zits during a 3 hour print. I have tried systematically varying extrusion temp, bed temp, retraction speed, etc. to no avail.

I am a bit lost as to what combination of settings to try.


Would you be able to attach a few images of the completed prints? Also, the blobs on the prints that you are referring to.

Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Thu May 27, 2021 7:55 pm

Steven@Raise3D wrote:
Would you be able to attach a few images of the completed prints? Also, the blobs on the prints that you are referring to.


The pictures in grey of the results I'm getting with MatterHackers Build Series PLA using their profile for the E2, using a 0.2mm layer height.

The picture is tan/brown shows the issue with the MatterHackers Pro Series PLA, random voids from filament grinding. Most prints with the Pro Series PLA are worse than this. I have only had success with this filament a few simple 'L' shaped brackets (fewer details, far less retractions, etc.)

I can print this same enclosure with the white Raise3D PLA and they come out perfect (using the Raise3D PLA profile.)

Thanks
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Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:32 pm

I finally got this part to print perfectly with other than Raise3D PLA! I thought I would print the '3D Benchy' as a test object since it is so well known but it came out fine for the most part, where as this little enclosure had all sorts of issues, go figure.

I started with the MatterHackers Build Series PLA profile and went through and very methodically changed one retraction related parameter at a time this weekend. Oddly what solved it was doing the opposite of the standard blob/zit advice. Retraction amount was changed from 0.5mm to 0.25mm, Minimum retraction set from 0.6mm to 0.5mm, and coasting turned off.

I printed a few other parts yesterday with some old Amazon Basics PLA using the same profile and they came out perfect as well.

With the MatterHackers Build Series PLA working so well now I'll use this profile as a starting point for the MatterHackers Pro Series PLA and see if I can make any headway.

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:54 am

Jeff_Birt wrote:I finally got this part to print perfectly with other than Raise3D PLA! I thought I would print the '3D Benchy' as a test object since it is so well known but it came out fine for the most part, where as this little enclosure had all sorts of issues, go figure.

I started with the MatterHackers Build Series PLA profile and went through and very methodically changed one retraction related parameter at a time this weekend. Oddly what solved it was doing the opposite of the standard blob/zit advice. Retraction amount was changed from 0.5mm to 0.25mm, Minimum retraction set from 0.6mm to 0.5mm, and coasting turned off.

I printed a few other parts yesterday with some old Amazon Basics PLA using the same profile and they came out perfect as well.

With the MatterHackers Build Series PLA working so well now I'll use this profile as a starting point for the MatterHackers Pro Series PLA and see if I can make any headway.


Happy to hear you were making progress. Our standard templates are tuned for our premium materials, which generally is a good starting point to start tuning 3rd party materials.

Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:59 pm

I think this is a lesson and not making things too complicated. I got a few rolls of PLA from the same manufacturer that were rated up to 220C so I figured heat creep would not be an issue. One of colors of PLA did a good job with my little enclosure test piece the other was plain awful. I went though and meticulously changed retraction related parameters one at a time and there was no change in behavior which made no sense.

I then tried a Benchy and of course the results were terrible. I had to unload the extruder at this point as all the filament striping had partially clogged the extruder. I then noticed how much of an impression the extruder gear had left in the filament. Having nothing to loose I backed off the extruder feed pressure 1/4 turn (1/4 turn counter clockwise). The next Benchy came out great. I printed half of my little test case which also came out fine.

I change back to the MatterHackers Pro Series PLA next but I suspect it will work OK now. Evidently the feed pressure was high enough that some filaments were deformed enough to cause feeding issues.
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Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:18 pm

This is very, very, very, very frustrating. Some PLA filaments print fine, some can't make it through a single print without filament grinding. Even with two different colors of brown from the same manufacturer (tan vs. beige) one prints fine the other, beige as shown above does not.

The successful prints after lowering the feed gear pressure were a fluke. I have swapped filaments between extruders and run the same code on same extruder with different PLA and it works. Beige PLA does not work on either extruder. Conclusion both extruders are acting the same. Either they are super finicky or there is something I am missing.

There is not enough difference in standard PLAs to account for this either printing beautifully or not at all. This beige and the tan are both rated up to 220C so it does not seem like heat creep would be an issue.

Kevin@Raise3D
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Kevin@Raise3D » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:32 am

Jeff_Birt wrote:This is very, very, very, very frustrating. Some PLA filaments print fine, some can't make it through a single print without filament grinding. Even with two different colors of brown from the same manufacturer (tan vs. beige) one prints fine the other, beige as shown above does not.

The successful prints after lowering the feed gear pressure were a fluke. I have swapped filaments between extruders and run the same code on same extruder with different PLA and it works. Beige PLA does not work on either extruder. Conclusion both extruders are acting the same. Either they are super finicky or there is something I am missing.

There is not enough difference in standard PLAs to account for this either printing beautifully or not at all. This beige and the tan are both rated up to 220C so it does not seem like heat creep would be an issue.


Just to clarify all of the materials that you are having issues with are PLA correct? Strictly as a troubleshooting step can you please use the Gcode that I have attached to test with the other materials? Please let me know the results.
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Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:29 am

Kevin@Raise3D wrote:Just to clarify all of the materials that you are having issues with are PLA correct? Strictly as a troubleshooting step can you please use the Gcode that I have attached to test with the other materials? Please let me know the results.


Yes, all material have used to date is PLA. Same problems with both extruders. Your test piece prints fine, things without a lot of retractions will print fine with any PLA I have tried. When you get into something with a lot of detail, a lot of retractions, it grinds the filament. See the image of the Benchy for example. The Benchy in the foreground was lowered to save some printing time and it started grinding the filament in the same area of the model. It is not time related I have run 5-6 hours prints with the filaments that work no problems.

For fun tonight I sliced the Benchy with Simplify3D, and it grinds the filament in the same spot. I have it running again with the extruder temp set all the way down to 190C to see if it is actually temperature related. Given that in the same filament line, from the same manufacturer, one color works and another grinds I do not know what to think.

As I was writing this it stopped the 190C print only 1mm up from builds plate. Very sad to have a $3,500 printer that will only print 'some' PLA.
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Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:33 am

For the heck of it I tried the cut down Benchy again at 220C figuring if it did worse at 190 perhaps the issue it is too viscous at lower temps and harder to retract. Well, it completed the print and looks decent aside from more stringing due to the higher temp. I'm printing some actual useful parts now with a different PLA but will try again with this problematic beige at 220C and 215C to see how it does.
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Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:47 pm

I was able to print a full Bency at 220C, then I tried 215C which did not work. Back at 220C and a second full Benchy print went fine. After that I did two more 3+ hour prints of a small enclosure which also worked fine. In total about 10 hours of printing with this PLA at 220C.

I have to admit to being a bit confused by these results as the original print symptoms were more similar to a heat creep or too aggressive retraction problem. This makes me wonder if the temp of my hot ends is calibrated correctly. I'll need to check that.

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:56 am

Jeff_Birt wrote:I was able to print a full Bency at 220C, then I tried 215C which did not work. Back at 220C and a second full Benchy print went fine. After that I did two more 3+ hour prints of a small enclosure which also worked fine. In total about 10 hours of printing with this PLA at 220C.

I have to admit to being a bit confused by these results as the original print symptoms were more similar to a heat creep or too aggressive retraction problem. This makes me wonder if the temp of my hot ends is calibrated correctly. I'll need to check that.


Based on what you have described as well as the images you have provided I believe that the problem is more related to setting rather than an issue with the machine. Something else to take into consideration is that our printhead is designed with very tight tolerances (1.75mm +/-0.05mm) to ensure that there is no possibility of filament binding when printing softer materials. The downside to this is that if the filament that you are printing with does not match the printhead tolerances it can lead to things like inconsistent extrusion and jamming.

Jeff_Birt
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Jeff_Birt » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:59 pm

It works great with this PLA filament at 220C. The suggested printing range for this filament is 200C-220C so it is still in spec. It is just 'odd' that it is so far off a different color filament from same manufacturer. It might be that the different color additives change the material properties enough to cause this. I know that different color filaments will absorb moisture at different rates so it is not unreasonable.

What seems most odd is that the symptoms seem so classically 'over temp / heat creep' when they were not.

Anyhow, printing great now...

87ninefiveone
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby 87ninefiveone » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:14 pm

I've got a couple of Pro2 machines at work and FWIW I can print the Build series PLA stuff no problem, but I've never been able to get Pro PLA to work. I always get clogs. I went back and forth with Raise3D and Matterhackers support for quite as well as experimenting on my own to try and get it to work, but no luck with printing successfully. To their credit Matterhackers refunded me on something like 10-12 spools of material that I'd purchased. I just use the Raise3D filament and buy it through MH website now and so far so good. If I need colors they don't offer I've had good luck with eSun and Fiberforce PLA filaments printing well.

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Matterhackers Pro Series PLA

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:49 am

Jeff_Birt wrote:It works great with this PLA filament at 220C. The suggested printing range for this filament is 200C-220C so it is still in spec. It is just 'odd' that it is so far off a different color filament from same manufacturer. It might be that the different color additives change the material properties enough to cause this. I know that different color filaments will absorb moisture at different rates so it is not unreasonable.

What seems most odd is that the symptoms seem so classically 'over temp / heat creep' when they were not.

Anyhow, printing great now...


Happy to hear that they are printing well!


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