Pro2: Printing with support structures disappointing / unacceptable

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Semico3D
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:19 pm

Pro2: Printing with support structures disappointing / unacceptable

Postby Semico3D » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:50 pm

Dear all

I purchased the Raise3D Pro2 printer in early September for my small engineering company, believing to have purchased a printer which will print prototype parts (mostly not too complex, but some of them requiring support structures) reliably and not requiring endless hours or even days of tweeking, tuning etc. This is especially important as we'd like to focus on our engineering work and not on 3D printer troubleshooting, modding etc.

While the printing of single extruder jobs or dual extruder jobs using the same material (e.g. PLA dual color prints) works very satisfactory and reproducible, the printing of parts requiring support structures (PLA in combination with PVA or BVOH) is very disappointing. Main issues are shifts occuring during printing, wipe tower or wipe ring losing adhesion resulting in a mess and support material not adhering very well to Buildtak surface (while BVOH is not as bad as PVA).
After a lot of process optimization (I'm not a 3D-printing specialist, but have +10 years experience as process engineer) maybe every tenth to every fifth printed part with support structures is usable, which is not acceptable from our point of view. What we need is a working printer and not spending endless hours of our valuable engineering time.

When I go through the community topics it seems that not many people seem to have issues with printing parts requiring support material / structures. Are most Pro2 users just printing simple stuff (single extrusion / no support)? Or did they initially have the same issues we had and are now keeping their reliably working profiles / recipes secret (which I can understand from I business point of view)?
What is a bit astonishing to me is that there is nearly no information about printing with support structures available. Neither in the FAQ, getting started section nor in any documention. Just some little info about a taco truck printed with support structures. Even with the latest software update from end of October there were no new printing profiles delivered enabling reliable printing with support materials.

What we do or did so far:
-Software / Firmware up-to-date; Update from end of October did not resolve our problems.
-we store all our filament spools in sealed plastic bags with dessicant and humidity indicators
-we regulary checked bed leveling, nozzle hight (left and right)
-we calibrated the flow of left and right extruder for the different printing materials.
-we clean our Buildtak plate with ultrapure grade isopropyl alcohol before each print.
-room temperature is a constant 19°C / 40% humidity; no sun light (basement).
-we swapped the filaments between left and right extruder to exclude any extruder specific problems => problems remained identical
-dual extruder printing with the same material, but two colors (e.g. white PLA / red PLA) works flawlessly.
-we spent endless hours doing controlled experiments (using design of experiments methods) to vary printing speed, temperatures etc. but without any significant improvement.
-Filaments: Raise3D Premium PLA and 'Profill' brand PLA (both with same results); PVA from 'Profill' brand and 'e-Sun' (both with same results); BVOH from Verbatim (slightly better results, but still not acceptable).

Many thanks for your thoughts and replies.
Regards from Switzerland
Alex
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Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 4941
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Pro2: Printing with support structures disappointing / unacceptable

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:24 pm

We have just released new version of firmwares and ideaMaker and have updated PVA settings in ideaMaker in this version based on the test result with our PVA.
If you get a chance, you can start tuning print settings from the new PVA override settings.
And here are some setup tips for our PVA, hope can provide some help: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1069/ ... 1047694716

crimsonyoshi
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Pro2: Printing with support structures disappointing / unacceptable

Postby crimsonyoshi » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:01 am

I’ve got a roll of BVOH, but have yet to actually use it. Your right PLA dual printing is great, but so is PLA supporting PLA. It turned out quite well, and it’s easy to remove the support PLA without removing the actual model PLA. Other than using PolySupport (which is recommended for polycarbonate) I don’t have much else to add. I can finally post some pictures of my Latest PC part.

Definitely won’t lie that it took a lot of tinkering to get the PolySupport material right, And I still don’t have it 100%, but it’s close, and works more than well enough. The white material is Polysupport, and black is Polycarbonate. Also will add what's not 100% in these pictures is a second layer of Polysupport. Due to the curve of the wheel, there's the bed, then a support layer of Polysupport followed by Polycarbonate, then more Polysupport on top and finally more Polycarbonate. The white support you see scattered about is trying to put Polysupport on top of Polycarbonate, that's what I'm still working on getting 100% - but even with the carnage there, the Polycarbonate turned out about 99.7% right. 4 layers of that stuff should be complex!

Reminder, this is a polycarbonate piece (which is fun to figure out how to not warp while printing). Final two images have a cap piece on (which I've got posted in another one of my threads), and yes - that is a robotic lawn mower!

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Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 4941
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Pro2: Printing with support structures disappointing / unacceptable

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:37 pm

Thanks for you sharing.
I saw some users do struggle with Polysupport print. If you'd like to share tips here, that will be more than appreciated.

crimsonyoshi
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Pro2: Printing with support structures disappointing / unacceptable

Postby crimsonyoshi » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:14 pm



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