Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

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ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Tue Mar 29, 2022 5:33 pm

So I'm having some issues with lifting while using Polymaker's Polymide PA6-CF.

Here are my layer settings:
Nozzle Size: 0.4mm hardened
Nozzle Temp: 290C (305C in the default template seemed too hot, might hotter adhere better?)
Bed Temp: 50C
First Layer Height: 0.3mm (experimented a bit with this, lower seems to warp more)
Layer Height after 1st layer: 0.2mm
First Layer Flowrate: Increased to 102%
Shell and Infill Order: Infill>Inner Shell>Outer Shell
Platform Additions: Brim Only - 20mm/s - 15 brim loop lines

All of my other settings are pretty much stock from the Raise3d template import. I've had a couple decent prints but I'm having really inconsistent results with the first layer and lifting. I've tried recalibrating my z-height to a tighter fit with the 0.2mm feeler gauge (ordered a 0.15mm one based on another post). I'm currently using Elmer's blue glue sticks but have recently ordered some Magigoo and a sheet of Garolite off McMaster. The other threads I found related to this offered some similar suggestions but I couldn't tell if anything ever worked out. Has anyone else had success with this material and have any suggestions beyond what I'm trying? This also seems challenging to print overhangs with. Does anyone have advice on improving that side of things as well? The good parts I've gotten from this seem stronger than anything else I've printed with and well suited to the structural nature I have intended for this project.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JF2DgCguZScAw3ff7

I've previously printed Matterhackers Nylon X with very good consistent results without really having to tune anything but temp and speed of the outer shell for aesthetics. However, Polymaker is one of the few companies that seem to do thorough materials testing and actually offers strength data. PA6-CF also seems to have a higher carbon fiber content from what I can tell.

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:35 pm

Here's a picture of the lifting on another part:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QwCyzP7v6r7wdK5C9

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Ryan@Raise3D
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Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby Ryan@Raise3D » Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:04 am

When printing with any nylon material we recommend using magigoo PA on the build surface as in our experience this is the best adhesive for getting Nylons to stick. I would also recommend ensuring that the material has been dried to ensure that it extrudes properly and I also believe that the 290 may be a bit too high, but I would recommend checking with what Polymaker says on their website.

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:39 pm

Thanks for the response Ryan. Sounds like changing glue might be my best bet. I forgot to mention that the material has been dried and is still in the dryer while printing.

Polymaker lists the temp range for this material at 280-300C, so I'm right in the middle of that. Raise3d's downloadable template actually had it set at 305C. I was surprised to see that since I think the Pro2 is only supposed to go to 300C. I experimented with temps and have seen some other reviews with settings listed all at 290-292C. Are you thinking that I might get better adhesion reducing the temp? I haven't really tried experimenting with that yet.

I actually received a response from Polymaker this morning and they said with their material the heated bed can actually cause warping. Their suggestion is to reduce or turn off the heated bed. I'm running a test part now with my nozzle temp reduced to 285C, the heated bed off, and skirt instead of brim. So far it's looking good. The batch of parts I ran overnight with 60C bed and with slowing down the first 10 layers turned out better. I think that can be attributed more to the speed though. I'll see how this turns out but I think I'm on the right path and switching to Magigoo will help too. I'll be sure to post my settings once I get to an acceptable point.

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Ryan@Raise3D
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Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby Ryan@Raise3D » Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:51 am

Sounds good I look forward to hearing the results of your prints with these changes

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:04 pm

So turning off the heated bed seemed to do the trick. I have since been able to get rid of the brim and am using skirt instead now. I have gone back and forth with nozzle temps between 280C and 290C as well. Going too low seems to reduce bed adhesion so I've gone back to 290C.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9RNJZuY9Pa6KHKDA6

I tried Magigoo on this and it just doesn't seem to promote adhesion as well as the purple Elmers for me.

I also tried the Garolite sheet with some interesting results. I got a good print on it but it adhered too well to it. So well that I damaged the part trying to remove it. The sheet also didn't seem very flat, which seems quite important for this material, so I have gone away from using a different bed surface.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Up3s31qk1arUCJzA6

After seeing flatness influence things I rechecked leveling of my build plate as well. I noticed when going through this that if all the nuts are loosened on the bottom of the bed that the plate is fairly warped. Adjusting them one by one seems to have gotten it to an acceptable level.

Now that I have gone through that and re-dried the material I seem to be having some decent results. Overall this material doesn't seem nearly as easy to print with as Polymaker seems to make it sound like it is. However, it seems tougher and stronger than anything else I've printed with. I'm attempting to print a mountain bike frame with this, so it should be quite the test of the material if everything works out.

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:14 pm

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KbDvdLZBbvdDAavb7

I'm starting to get pretty frustrated with this filament after my first layers starting to look like this. I even just opened a new bag of it to see if that made any difference since they're supposed to come pre-dried. It feels like there's quite a bit of drag in the PTFE tubing it runs though so I just ordered some larger tubing from McMaster. It appears to be under-extruding despite cleaning the nozzle/extruder, increasing the temp, and increasing the flow rate. I'm at kind of at loss for what to do with this stuff. I initially got some decent prints out of it but it seems incredibly inconsistent. Any suggestions beyond what I've tried?

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Ryan@Raise3D
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Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby Ryan@Raise3D » Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:40 am

Thank you for the update. There is a chance that increasing the flow rate here caused more issues than helped as there is a point where too much flow rate can cause the material to back up into itself and not extrude properly.

Cna i also have you try loading the material again and let me know if you see any bubbling or if the material doesn't come out of the print head in a straight line but instead curls to the side?

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:00 am

That makes sense with the flow rate. I just tried printing a 1st layer with the flowrate reduced back to 100% and I'm seeing pretty much the same thing if not a bit worse :(

I tried loading again and it comes out in a straight line with no bubbles. Thanks for the suggestions and helping with my troubleshooting btw.

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:59 pm

So after digging through settings I found a global z offset of +0.3mm. I had previously noticed this and thought it was supposed to be there. In part of my troubleshooting I tried reducing this with positive results in bed adhesion. I never thought that this was maybe a mistake in the material profile I imported. I just reduced it to zero and increased my extrusion width on the first layer with flowrate at 100%.

It seems like there may be some questionable settings in the profile I downloaded here: https://www.ideamaker.io/detail/1902-pro2-series

What I've noticed in the profile that doesn't make sense:
1. Temperature setting is 305C, which is out of the range listed (280-300C) by Polymaker
2. Global Z Offset of +0.3mm - All of my other profiles have zero here
3. Override Filament Settings is set to reduce the flowrate to 94% on everything

So after unchecking the override setting, setting z offset to 0, and increasing the first layer extrusion width my first layer is not under-extruding and smooth now. However, I'm still seeing issues with the rest of the print. I don't know whether the speeds are off and generally don't work for this material or what's going on. I'm trying some troubleshooting with speeds and reducing flowrate for areas outside of the first layer now.

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:25 pm

I think I finally got it dialed or very very close now. The overhang and shell performance was pretty bad with the stock template. I've since slowed things way down and I'm getting some acceptable prints. I probably went a little overboard with how much I slowed things down but appearance is pretty important with my project and I don't have any deadlines. Whatever it takes to make good parts is what matters. Here are the settings I'm using now for anyone interested. I may make tweaks to speed and part specific settings but I don't see this changing drastically now that I'm getting decent parts.

[Polymaker] Polymide PA6-CF-Tuned.bin
(23.63 KiB) Downloaded 35 times

[Polymaker] Polymide PA6-CF.filament
(627 Bytes) Downloaded 33 times

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:56 pm

So after spending a bunch of time on this I think I've finally got it all dialed in. I ended up replacing my nozzles with Solex Ruby nozzles and doing a fair amount of tuning with flowrates and speeds. I'm also running with some larger ID PTFE tubing to reduce feed drag directly from my PrintDry. I think I'm pretty happy with the results now:

original_4e5f0dba-9d62-458e-b441-eeb1f730d149_PXL_20220421_151829679.jpg
[Polymaker] Polymide PA6-CF-4-21-22.bin
(23.45 KiB) Downloaded 28 times

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:25 pm

PXL_20220426_150417930.jpg


PXL_20220426_150222456.jpg

ZombiePach
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:16 am

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZombiePach » Sun May 22, 2022 12:50 am

Wow. Those look impressive. Nice job sticking with it!

ZED
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZED » Mon May 23, 2022 3:25 pm

ZombiePach wrote:Wow. Those look impressive. Nice job sticking with it!


Thanks! I'm pretty happy with the results I'm getting now. This stuff is really strong and prints quite well now that I have the settings figured out.
Attachments
PXL_20220523_001403270.MP.jpg
PXL_20220523_001021314.jpg

ZombiePach
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:16 am

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZombiePach » Mon May 23, 2022 4:09 pm

Would you consider uploading your profile to the Ideamaker.io site to help others? I’m not using that material yet, but I’m a Polymaker fan so it’s only a matter of time:-).

https://www.ideamaker.io/


Either way, thanks for sharing your journey!

SmithIndustries
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:00 pm

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby SmithIndustries » Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:04 pm

I would also love to have these settings. I have had decent results printing 1 part at a time but I have a larger batch of parts to do and don't want to deal with the ooze the raise profile seems to provide.

ZombiePach
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:16 am

Re: Polymaker - Polymide PA6-CF

Postby ZombiePach » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:38 pm

Zed,

Could I also ask what specific machine you are using? I've imported you .bin and .filament files. Sorry if I missed it in the thread.

Thanks again.

Edit: It appears whatever it was developed for, using the .bin changed the Gcode for my Pro3. As someone who struggles to wrap my head around ideaMaker and it's different file formats/workflows, this is an unpleasant realization. To anyone else downloading profiles from other Raise users, be careful to understand how and what will be affected when they are loaded into your ideaMaker.


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