Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

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innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:27 am

Hi there!

Short introduction:
I'm quite new to Raise3D forum and 3D printing in generell. My motivation to buy the great and loved printer Raise3D Pro2 Plus was, to build functional parts. I'm using the printer since August 2020 and could already build some very nice parts in PLA and ABS-S.

Why I bought PA6 CF15:
Two weeks ago I had to have a high temperature filament, since I'm currently working on some vehicle heater tube adapters, where I have to deal with operation temperature of around 120°C (about 250°F). That's why I was asking my printer dealer for a filament like Raise3D PA12 CF (https://www.raise3d.com/filaments/nylon-12-cf/). The dealer suggested me, to buy Spectrum PA6 CF15 (https://en.spectrumfilaments.com/PA6-CF ... g-153.html) instead and promised me to deliver a printer profile for my Pro2 Plus. The profile I got was a Taulman3D Alloy 910 based profile, but unfortunately, I couldn't get it working till now and the dealer suggestions are not helping me to solve the issue in useful manner.

That's why I'm here with my questions and I hope, to learn a lot and get back to production soon (currently I'm delayed in my project due to the issues).

Configuration for the current project:
  • Raise3D Pro2 Plus
  • 3dSolex Raise3D Everlast Rubin Nozzle 0.60mm Pro2
  • Filament tryed and directly feeded out of the dryer into the printer (​Eureka ADL-3D77)
  • Filament: Spectrum PA6 CF15 (https://en.spectrumfilaments.com/PA6-CF ... g-153.html)
  • Exchanged the original feeding hoses to PTFE hoses, to reduce the resistance due to the quite long feeding way of about 150cm (60 inch)
  • Glue:​ ​Magigoo Pro PA / Nylon => works very fine on the original heating platform

My issue:
My issue is, that the filament feeding stops randomly while printing. I even couldn't print short prints without reloading the filament or aborting the print. And of course, reloading filament results in gabs in the print, but it was a try to get at least one print to the end (honeycomb adapter).

I tried to print one of my own parts (honeycomb adapter) and also a test cube from Thingiverse (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1278865/files) with this filament.

Test print honeycomb adapter
  • Used a Taulman3D Alloy 910 based profile, which I got from the dealer
=> While printing my own honeycomb structure adapter, I had to reload the filament about 15 to 20 times due to clogging during the 1.5 hour print.
pa6-cf15-honeycomb.jpg


Test print XYZ 20mm Calibration Cube
  • Used a Taulman3D Alloy 910 based profile, which I got from the dealer, adjusted print bed temperature to 80°C and print head to 240°C
=> The filament feeding aborted after printing about 50% of the small cube. The surface would look quite nice.
pa6-cf15-04-cube.jpg

pa6-cf15-03-cube.jpg

pa6-cf15-06-cube.jpg

pa6-cf15-05-cube.jpg


Next step:
I probably try an other profile as NylonX form MatterHackers, till Spectrum is hopefully delivering a profile for Pro2.

:?: Any suggestions to get this filament working? What would you do?

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:45 am

Hello all

Here some additional test results. I tried the profile "NylonX profile for Pro2 Series" (https://www.raise3d.com/compatible-filaments/) with the filament Spectrum PA6 CF15.

This video shows, how the filament begins to clogging (video is accessible till Feb 03, 2021):
https://www.dropbox.com/t/0E6OXluo2YXlqbOH

After stopping the print incl. filament out of the extruder:
pa6-cf15-nylonx-01.jpg


Cube:
pa6-cf15-nylonx-02.jpg

pa6-cf15-nylonx-04.jpg

pa6-cf15-nylonx-03.jpg


Suggestions welcome. :-)

User avatar
Steven@Raise3D
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:24 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:20 pm

innoprint wrote:Hi there!

Short introduction:
I'm quite new to Raise3D forum and 3D printing in generell. My motivation to buy the great and loved printer Raise3D Pro2 Plus was, to build functional parts. I'm using the printer since August 2020 and could already build some very nice parts in PLA and ABS-S.

Why I bought PA6 CF15:
Two weeks ago I had to have a high temperature filament, since I'm currently working on some vehicle heater tube adapters, where I have to deal with operation temperature of around 120°C (about 250°F). That's why I was asking my printer dealer for a filament like Raise3D PA12 CF (https://www.raise3d.com/filaments/nylon-12-cf/). The dealer suggested me, to buy Spectrum PA6 CF15 (https://en.spectrumfilaments.com/PA6-CF ... g-153.html) instead and promised me to deliver a printer profile for my Pro2 Plus. The profile I got was a Taulman3D Alloy 910 based profile, but unfortunately, I couldn't get it working till now and the dealer suggestions are not helping me to solve the issue in useful manner.

That's why I'm here with my questions and I hope, to learn a lot and get back to production soon (currently I'm delayed in my project due to the issues).

Configuration for the current project:
  • Raise3D Pro2 Plus
  • 3dSolex Raise3D Everlast Rubin Nozzle 0.60mm Pro2
  • Filament tryed and directly feeded out of the dryer into the printer (​Eureka ADL-3D77)
  • Filament: Spectrum PA6 CF15 (https://en.spectrumfilaments.com/PA6-CF ... g-153.html)
  • Exchanged the original feeding hoses to PTFE hoses, to reduce the resistance due to the quite long feeding way of about 150cm (60 inch)
  • Glue:​ ​Magigoo Pro PA / Nylon => works very fine on the original heating platform

My issue:
My issue is, that the filament feeding stops randomly while printing. I even couldn't print short prints without reloading the filament or aborting the print. And of course, reloading filament results in gabs in the print, but it was a try to get at least one print to the end (honeycomb adapter).

I tried to print one of my own parts (honeycomb adapter) and also a test cube from Thingiverse (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1278865/files) with this filament.

Test print honeycomb adapter
  • Used a Taulman3D Alloy 910 based profile, which I got from the dealer
=> While printing my own honeycomb structure adapter, I had to reload the filament about 15 to 20 times due to clogging during the 1.5 hour print.
pa6-cf15-honeycomb.jpg


Test print XYZ 20mm Calibration Cube
  • Used a Taulman3D Alloy 910 based profile, which I got from the dealer, adjusted print bed temperature to 80°C and print head to 240°C
=> The filament feeding aborted after printing about 50% of the small cube. The surface would look quite nice.
pa6-cf15-03-cube.jpg

pa6-cf15-04-cube.jpg

pa6-cf15-05-cube.jpg

pa6-cf15-06-cube.jpg


Next step:
I probably try an other profile as NylonX form MatterHackers, till Spectrum is hopefully delivering a profile for Pro2.

:?: Any suggestions to get this filament working? What would you do?


Does this issue occur with any other materials? Like PLA? Or does it occur with all materials?

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:02 pm

@Steven@Raise3D:

No, I could print with PLA and ABS-S for very extensive prints for over 6 days without any issue. For this PA6 CF15 filament I changed to a hardened 0.6 nozzle and adjusted it appropriate.

In ideaMaker I set the nozzle size to 0.6mm, but the mobile app shows 0.4mm anyway. It seems to me to be a bug or should I set attention to this mismatch?

Next test:
Today I got a profile from Spectrum and of course I just tested this profile. The temperature is set to 265°C in this manufacturer profile and the cooling is set to 50%. Unfortunately the print aborted again after 50%.

pa6-cf15-spectrum-profile-02.jpg

pa6-cf15-spectrum-profile-01.jpg



You can find the gcode file and the Spectrum PA6 CF15 profile, which I got today. [210127a-PA6CF15-cube.zip]
210127a-PA6CF15-cube.zip
(222.5 KiB) Downloaded 12 times


Well, as you can see in this post, with all three prints and three different profile I'm still having essential issues. The print looks good till it's randomly aborting after 50 to 80%.

Any idea?

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:37 pm

Steven@Raise3D wrote:
Does this issue occur with any other materials? Like PLA? Or does it occur with all materials?


Hello Steven

To double check, I just printed two cubes in ABS-S without any issue with the hardened 0.6mm nozzle.

IMG_6197.jpeg


With the Spectrum PA6 CF15 I couldn't still print successful.

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:26 am

Hello Raise3D support and Raise3D users

I have serious issues, to get the PA6 CF15 filament running with my loved Raise3D Pro2 Plus.

Should I forget this filament and change to an other high heat compatible filament or what would you do to get a step further?

By the way, this is the second filament from Spectrum, which I couldn’t get working with the pro2. I had also serious issues with PETG from Spectrum. I rejected the PETG and went for ABS-S for an other successful closed project.

For the current project I need a high temperature compatible filament (around 120°C or about 250°F from a heater). The dealer suggested to go for the Spectrum PA6 CF15, which I can‘t get running till now.

Any suggestions to get a step further are very appreciated. – What would you do?

Markus64
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby Markus64 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:04 pm

Tip: Set the printing temperature to 275 ° C and try again.
Can you measure the temperature of the extruder motor and report it here?

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:07 pm

Markus64 wrote:Tip: Set the printing temperature to 275 ° C and try again.
Can you measure the temperature of the extruder motor and report it here?


Hello Markus64
The Spectrum PA6 CF15 is rated for 235-260°C. Do you know this filament and what‘s the reason to go that high?

Markus64
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby Markus64 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:18 pm

If you print with a hardened nozzle, e.g. with a steel nozzle, then you have to set the printer to 275°C to get 260°C in the nozzle.
Look here: https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21049

I am particularly interested in the temperature of the extruder.

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:47 pm

Markus64 wrote:If you print with a hardened nozzle, e.g. with a steel nozzle, then you have to set the printer to 275°C to get 260°C in the nozzle.
Look here: https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21049

I am particularly interested in the temperature of the extruder.


Thanks you for your helpful feedback. I will post my feedback after testing.

User avatar
Steven@Raise3D
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:24 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:38 pm

innoprint wrote:
Steven@Raise3D wrote:
Does this issue occur with any other materials? Like PLA? Or does it occur with all materials?


Hello Steven

To double check, I just printed two cubes in ABS-S without any issue with the hardened 0.6mm nozzle.

IMG_6197.jpeg


With the Spectrum PA6 CF15 I couldn't still print successful.


Thanks for testing those, the prints look pretty good! Leading me to believe that the issue is most likely caused by improper slicing settings. It is difficult to make accurate suggestions as we have never worked with the material on our machines. I can make recommendations based on what I see but it will take some trial and error on your end to get it working properly. Can you provide me with this info?

Have you dried this filament before printing?

Do you have a way of keeping the filament dry while printing?

What are the filament manufacturer's recommendations for printing temperatures?

Can you send me the Gcode file of the XYZ cube that failed?

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:42 pm

Markus64 wrote:Tip: Set the printing temperature to 275 ° C and try again.
Can you measure the temperature of the extruder motor and report it here?


Hello Markus64 and all supporter

Here the measurement results. I measured temp set at 260°C for reference.
  • On the left with the 3dSolex Raise3D Everlast Rubin nozzle 0.60mm Pro2.
  • On the right the original Pro2 0.4 nozzle.
Temp-measurment-print-test_210202b.jpg


Picture legend:
S: measure point in the middle of the picture => centered to the left and right nozzles on the upper right pictures
H: hottest point on the infrared image
C: coldest point on the infrared image (not relevant)


As suggested, I printed with 275°C and the profile, which Spectrum provided. Bed set to 80°C and cover open. With following results:
  • Cube – the cube was printed the first time, with "ok" quality. Not perfekt, but ok.
  • Honeycomb adapter – very poor quality and clogged again during print

IMG_6255.jpg

IMG_6256.jpg


Next steps:
  • Spectrum (filament manufacturer) is still analyzing and I'm waiting for their suggestions.
  • In addition I asked my dealer, which sold the printer and suggested the filament, to deliver a gcode file for a test print. I have to know, if it is a printer issue or a filament setting issue.
  • As one option more, I‘m beginning to think about an alternative filament. Any suggestions for my high temp needs?

I hope that I find a solution during this week Else I think I have to reject this filament. If someone in this forum can give some helpful advice to get faster to a solution, I would very appreciate it.

Any appreciated help?

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:02 am

innoprint wrote:Next steps:
  • Spectrum (filament manufacturer) is still analyzing and I'm waiting for their suggestions.
  • In addition I asked my dealer, which sold the printer and suggested the filament, to deliver a gcode file for a test print. I have to know, if it is a printer issue or a filament setting issue.
  • As one option more, I‘m beginning to think about an alternative filament. Any suggestions for my high temp needs?

I hope that I find a solution during this week, else I think I have to reject this filament. If someone in this forum can give some helpful advice to get faster to a solution, I would very appreciate it.

Any appreciated help?


Well, another week is gone and unfortunately still no success. This week I got the information from my dealer, that:
  • The filament can be printed on a Craftbot printer without issues with PLA settings at 255°C
  • The Craftbot printer has a Volcano nozzle and the Raise3d a MK8 nozzle
  • That the issues are probably caused by a reservoir size issue due to the different nozzle form

OK, let’s change the direction after one month of testing and trying to find a solution. Due to the fact, that Raise3D is advertising Raise3D printers for carbon filaments, it should be easy to find a solution.

Let’s simplify the question:
What combination nozzle / carbon filaments are successful used out in the production field with Raise3D Pro2 Plus printers?


innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:45 am

Hi Raise3D community

Facts, good news :) and bad news, regarding Spectrum PA6 CF15 filament & Raise3D Pro2 Plus.

Approved facts – not compatible
Seven weeks ago I asked for a official supported filament. Last week I got the approval, that this filament, printer and nozzle combination does not work together. I know, that manufacturers (filament and supply chain) are working hard in the background, but it seems that the following combination is definitely not compatible:

  • Raise3D Pro2 Plus
  • 3dSolex Raise3D Everlast Rubin Nozzle 0.60mm Pro2
  • Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15

Good news
I got a test filament Nylon P6 C4 from my dealer (no name brand), which I could finally print three times without clogging and even two time during prints longer than two hours. :)

Facts
The print quality of this Nylon P6 C4 filament is currently not at the point for production use. I can imagine, that it will be possible to get it working. But again, not official supported and my problem to get it working properly. Currently it's not possible to get a official supported high temperature filament as Nylon/Carbon (https://www.raise3d.com/compatible-filaments/) over the official supply chain in Switzerland.

Nylon-P6C4-0-6-nozzle-cube_210219a.jpg

Nylon-P6C4-0-6-nozzle_210219a.jpg

Nylon-P6C4-testprints_210220a.png


Bad news
Well, I bought the Raise3D Pro2 Plus printer from an official Raise3D distributor, because there is a great community, an open filament program, lot's of advertising that this machines are just built for production use including a wide range of filaments as carbon fibre.

I was and I'm still asking for a official supported carbon filament (https://www.raise3d.com/compatible-filaments/) but can't currently get those over the official supply chain in Switzerland.

This is quite frustrating, since this results in an enormous try and error situation, which does definitely not match to the expectation in this Raise3D printer and does not justify the price point of the printer. If this would be one of those printers, which cost 1/10 of a Raise3D printer, I would have been expecting this. But for a professional production printer, it's not ok to have a project stopped for seven weeks now.

But anyway, I'm looking forward to get a solution with my official Raise3D dealer...

leonhart8888
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:02 am

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby leonhart8888 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:28 pm

The surface finish you're getting looks like you need to dry the filament. For engineering materials you always, always need to dry your filament before use, even if they are new and vacuumed sealed. The only brands that I've seen good results out of the box without drying, are ones that are packed in mylar bags which are impervious to moisture.

Best practices is to dry all your filament before use.

innoprint
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby innoprint » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:06 am

leonhart8888 wrote:The surface finish you're getting looks like you need to dry the filament. For engineering materials you always, always need to dry your filament before use, even if they are new and vacuumed sealed. The only brands that I've seen good results out of the box without drying, are ones that are packed in mylar bags which are impervious to moisture.

Best practices is to dry all your filament before use.


Thanks @leonhart8888 for your feedback.

I know and that's why I dry all filaments before use with a EuReka dryer:

This is a humidity based dryer, which my dealer sold me together with the printer for exactly this requirement, to have dry filaments.

What do you think, is this procedure adequate and does this dryer and procedure fulfill your expectation and good practice?

leonhart8888
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:02 am

Re: Nylon Spectrum PA6 CF15 & Raise3D Pro2 Plus

Postby leonhart8888 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:48 pm

I have one of those for storing dry filament but that won't actively pull moisture out if wet filament. You need to use heat. Most people use a food dehydrator or you can throw it in the oven. I have a unit from printdry. I dry it in there and then store and print from my eureka dry box.


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