Bearing play

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Trhuster
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Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:12 pm

When i was working on the printer i noticed that i have quite alot off play from the linear bearing in the printhead. I tried to film but it is superhard to see it on film.

But it is way more than normal for sure. What kind off bearing is it in there? Anyone else noticed the same?

https://youtu.be/T8jlnw2rWlA

Matthew Lozano
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Re: Bearing play

Postby Matthew Lozano » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:31 pm

I have the same issue with my N2 but most of the play is in the left and right direction. I asked about is some time ago and was told not to worry about it but its still bugging me, seems to me any relatively fast movement is going to wiggle the nozzle slightly out of position. Also I have been wondering if this could cause a nozzle strike on fast travel movements because the right hand nozzle looks like it moves downward due to with loose bearing.

I have been thinking of adding two linear bearings instead of the one on each rod, I think two might fit with each end slightly sticking out of the carriage block.

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Trhuster
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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:51 pm

If Raise3D think that amount of play in a linear bearing is fine they need to think again. It is not fine att all, Rasie3D should be a quality machine? Anyway, i will change them. Ofcourse so much play will affect the prints and they will only be worse the more hours the machine has on it.

I guess it is LM15UU bearings? Anyone know a good supplier off those in Europe?

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Postby Jetguy » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:36 pm

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:39 pm

Oh, sorry i mixed the numbers with outer diameter. I will mesaure the shaft when ongoing print is done then.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:02 pm

Mabey i am just unlucky. I am not terribly upset about it either. But it is alot off play and i want it to be perfect. So i have no problem to pay for replacement parts if they are good quality rods or bearing or both.

So far i have only praised Raise3D, well expect the very bent heated bed i got on mine N1.

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Derek@Raise3D
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Re: Bearing play

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:52 pm

Trhuster wrote:Mabey i am just unlucky. I am not terribly upset about it either. But it is alot off play and i want it to be perfect. So i have no problem to pay for replacement parts if they are good quality rods or bearing or both.

So far i have only praised Raise3D, well expect the very bent heated bed i got on mine N1.

The bearing play is a common issue. It's a mixed situation. The bearing and rods we are using are all high standard parts. Indeed the play exists. But it's not the main reason of the ringing effect. Heavy extruder can make this more obvious. As in the center, the rod is tend to bend a little bit.
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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:57 pm

Derek@Raise3D wrote:
Trhuster wrote:Mabey i am just unlucky. I am not terribly upset about it either. But it is alot off play and i want it to be perfect. So i have no problem to pay for replacement parts if they are good quality rods or bearing or both.

So far i have only praised Raise3D, well expect the very bent heated bed i got on mine N1.

The bearing play is a common issue. It's a mixed situation. The bearing and rods we are using are all high standard parts. Indeed the play exists. But it's not the main reason of the ringing effect. Heavy extruder can make this more obvious. As in the center, the rod is tend to bend a little bit.



The amount off play i have will ofcourse be visible in the print. But no problem, i will source high quality rods and bearings myself.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:26 pm

Trhuster wrote:
Derek@Raise3D wrote:
Trhuster wrote:Mabey i am just unlucky. I am not terribly upset about it either. But it is alot off play and i want it to be perfect. So i have no problem to pay for replacement parts if they are good quality rods or bearing or both.

So far i have only praised Raise3D, well expect the very bent heated bed i got on mine N1.

The bearing play is a common issue. It's a mixed situation. The bearing and rods we are using are all high standard parts. Indeed the play exists. But it's not the main reason of the ringing effect. Heavy extruder can make this more obvious. As in the center, the rod is tend to bend a little bit.



The amount off play i have will ofcourse be visible in the print. But no problem, i will source high quality rods and bearings myself.


According to the video, it's not so big. It's a whole assembly tolerance issue. Not simply the rod and the bearing and rod issue.
@Trhuster, can you pm me the serial number. I will look back into the batch parts' record.
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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:43 pm

Derek@Raise3D wrote:
Trhuster wrote:
Derek@Raise3D wrote:The bearing play is a common issue. It's a mixed situation. The bearing and rods we are using are all high standard parts. Indeed the play exists. But it's not the main reason of the ringing effect. Heavy extruder can make this more obvious. As in the center, the rod is tend to bend a little bit.



The amount off play i have will ofcourse be visible in the print. But no problem, i will source high quality rods and bearings myself.


According to the video, it's not so big. It's a whole assembly tolerance issue. Not simply the rod and the bearing and rod issue.
@Trhuster, can you pm me the serial number. I will look back into the batch parts' record.



I don't want to be any trouble. If you say this amount off play i have is with in Rasie3D tolerances i accept that. But personally i looking for the best prints a FDM printer in this kind off pricerange can give me and that i can never get with my currnet rods and bearings.

For reference i can compare with my old Zortax M200, that have same kind off gantry setup and there was no play to be find in the bearings. That is one off the reasons Zortrax prints is always so nice from any user that post pictuers on forums ect.

But so far i like Raise3D alot more than Zortax because i am free to use any slicer that i want and overall build construction is nice and sturdy! Touchsceeen is also super. But sure i will PM you my serial number.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:50 pm

Trhuster wrote:
Derek@Raise3D wrote:
Trhuster wrote:

The amount off play i have will ofcourse be visible in the print. But no problem, i will source high quality rods and bearings myself.


According to the video, it's not so big. It's a whole assembly tolerance issue. Not simply the rod and the bearing and rod issue.
@Trhuster, can you pm me the serial number. I will look back into the batch parts' record.



I don't want to be any trouble. If you say this amount off play i have is with in Rasie3D tolerances i accept that. But personally i looking for the best prints a FDM printer in this kind off pricerange can give me and that i can never get with my currnet rods and bearings.

For reference i can compare with my old Zortax M200, that have same kind off gantry setup and there was no play to be find in the bearings. That is one off the reasons Zortrax prints is always so nice from any user that post pictuers on forums ect.

But so far i like Raise3D alot more than Zortax because i am free to use any slicer that i want and overall build construction is nice and sturdy! Touchsceeen is also super. But sure i will PM you my serial number.


Thanks Trhuster! No offense, I just want to make things clear. The mechanic design of N series is different from zortrax. Zortrax is designed for perfect fit with a low speed. And the engineering is so great of Zortrax. I know you point and accept your advice. Currently, the play between bearings is bigger. When you want to find something with a very limited play. You may need to use bronze brush. But that may cut down the speed of the machine for a little bit.
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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Mon May 02, 2016 1:36 pm

Thx Raise3D team,

Got some new rods and bearings today. This rods are good, -0.01. Old one is -0.05. One interesting note is that the old one had a hole in the end and the new one has a small cutout instead. One can think that i does not matter but i does. Old rod with screw in the mountblock actually also had some play in it. With new one that is not possible so good small upgrade with the new rods.

Ofcourse easy to fix old rods the same way if you have some play that you want to get rid off.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Mon May 02, 2016 3:39 pm

swampy wrote:I take it the new type rods are fitted to new machines a dare say will look when mine arrives this week


I know only one that have complained aboit it and that is me so i would not worry about it. I still get very good prints with the play from old rods and bearings when printing at 40mm/s.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Mon May 02, 2016 6:38 pm

I mounted the new bearing and rods and no play now! Feels really good, thx again Raise team. I noticed that i had some binding when moving the printhead all the way to the right. It was the plastic top frame that was rubbing aginst the block that holds the rods. So check that if you can feel some binding when moving the printhead by hand. I put 2 shims under the frame and it is ok now.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Andy Cohen » Mon May 02, 2016 10:17 pm

Trhuster wrote:
swampy wrote:I take it the new type rods are fitted to new machines a dare say will look when mine arrives this week


I know only one that have complained aboit it and that is me so i would not worry about it. I still get very good prints with the play from old rods and bearings when printing at 40mm/s.

Make that two...
But OTOH I complain all the time... :(
The rails are too thin for the application, especially for the N2. However, even with the sag and the relatively loose sitting carriage I still am getting excellent prints.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Tue May 03, 2016 12:16 pm

First print after the change. Hobbyking PLA 0.25 layers and 40mm/s. Almost perfect layers, pretty happy with layering but still some small things to tweak to get it even better.

Full size picture: http://i.imgur.com/Mg1IDly.jpg

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Re: Bearing play

Postby walshlg » Tue May 03, 2016 12:57 pm

Trhuster wrote:I mounted the new bearing and rods and no play now! Feels really good, thx again Raise team. I noticed that i had some binding when moving the printhead all the way to the right. It was the plastic top frame that was rubbing aginst the block that holds the rods. So check that if you can feel some binding when moving the printhead by hand. I put 2 shims under the frame and it is ok now.


I'm a bit confused about where exactly you put the shims. If the block is rubbing on the frame wouldn't you have to lower the guide rod?

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Trhuster
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Re: Bearing play

Postby Trhuster » Tue May 03, 2016 1:22 pm

walshlg wrote:
Trhuster wrote:I mounted the new bearing and rods and no play now! Feels really good, thx again Raise team. I noticed that i had some binding when moving the printhead all the way to the right. It was the plastic top frame that was rubbing aginst the block that holds the rods. So check that if you can feel some binding when moving the printhead by hand. I put 2 shims under the frame and it is ok now.


I'm a bit confused about where exactly you put the shims. If the block is rubbing on the frame wouldn't you have to lower the guide rod?


The shims is under the plastic frame at the top. You see two countersunk holes on the picture, under there is my shims.

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Re: Bearing play

Postby GoffyOne » Tue May 17, 2016 1:05 pm

Is this kind of bearing play something that should be requested to get fixed. I have same play on mine N2 as was posted in
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=239
I checked it and the play is betwen the rod and bearing not the bearing and housing as Jetguy mentioned might be the problem.


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