Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
Jetguy
Posts: 2989
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:00 pm

Separate the issue here. I get the feeling the general thought process is folks bought V2 because it solves "all your problems". That's a false statement and idea.

YOU ABSOLUTELY need a V2 hotend to print other filaments VS V1
Having a V2 hotend does not GUARANTEE you won't get an airprint
This is because there are 2 parts, the FEEDER and the HOTEND
You upgraded the hotend, there are still issues with the feeder.

IF and ONLY IF, learn to properly adjust the pinch gear distance and properly optimize that on a per filament basis, then the stock feeder provides maximum force and doesn't slip and grind filament.
Otherwise, upgrade the feeder if you as a user don't want to take the time to make these adjustments and tests.

Options include the following basic groups:
Keeping the stock feeder block:
Change the drive gear to a sharper tooth profile like this https://ultimate3dprintingstore.com/pro ... river-gear
Or from Monoprice http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=1 ... 1&format=2
or from here http://www.3dp2go.com/38-teeth-steel-ex ... p-450.html
Along with changing to a sharper and better bite drive gear, changing how the idler applies the pressure of the filament pressing into the drive gear. We've seen everything from eccentric cams on the idler bearing to changing the bearing from a V-groove to a flat bearing

Moving beyond the stock feeder block:
There is the Bondtech commercial feeder upgrade
There are printable feeder block replacements that use alternative spring loaded idler feeder systems

Again, sorry, I didn't sell you or design this printer. I hate seeing this struggle and lack of understanding of the issue.
I'm sorry you might have to upgrade, you might have to learn how to adjust the stock parts if you choose not to upgrade.
But at some point, this struggle of the great unknown "why is my printer air printing" needs to end. We know why, we have posted solutions. People need to use them.

Jetguy
Posts: 2989
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:08 pm

And for the sake of discussion, yes, I know the Bondtech is not a cheap upgrade.
But it also does 2 things:
#1 provides absolute trouble free grip of the filament. No more adjustments, no more wondering.
#2 Increases the force even the stock motor can provide before it skips steps. This is because the smaller drive gear increases steps per mm, thus increasing the linear force the same motor provides.

We are back at the same old questions:
Can the stock printer work reliably? Yes, if you the user make adjustments as required
Can upgrades eliminate the problems? Absolutely, that's why they are upgrades.
Is there any one single upgrade that fixes everything? No, definitely not. V2 is one half of the upgrade. It's but a piece of the larger picture.

theRenegade
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 11:58 am

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby theRenegade » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:49 pm

dsiegfried wrote:It's not the Z-height. I know how to properly level the bed. The parts are printing fine until after a number of layers, then starts air printing.


Well, then you checked the Z-Height I guess...
Actually I was not talking about leveling the bed, just about the initial Z-Height.
Leveling is nothing that bothers me (now) because I print with raft wich is forgiving to some extent.
And yes I got that your first layers print fine, that's why I put in this possible issue (I had it before).

If initial Z-Height is o.k. try another print with disabled retraction (you will get stringing but you will know for sure if retraction is the cause).

I printed a part for weeks with a minimum change that caused it to be sliced different and end up with 'air printing'.
The issue here was that the part has vertical walls that are connected by some small dots of infill over a distance of about 60cm (actually it was going left/right/back/forth, but the total summed length was high). Means there where many of that (very) small connecting dots to print and every one caused retraction what grinds the filament to a point where extrusion stopped.

If it is like that with your print you can easily see that behavior when watching the print.

theRenegade
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 11:58 am

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby theRenegade » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:48 pm

Also found this one in the Wiki wich is something I did not think off before: :!:

"Raise3D N series machines have an acrylic extruder cover. Three thumb screws are used for locking tight the cover. Sometime the screws may be over tightened for transportation purpose. That may cause to random extrusion stopping during a print job. Just loose the cover will solve the problem."

firesped
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby firesped » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:14 am

with my insulated V2 hotend, I am able to print esun PLA at 190 C. A major key to this is the bed to nozzle distance being correct. it needs to be .2mm to .25mm distance. A greater distance will force temps higher in order to print. This is learned from trial and error on my part and I am posting this more to give anyone reading this in the future an understanding.

I just had an air print the other day with PLA+. fortunately it isn't fuse my bondtech.

ambient temp can effect the print as well, If the printer chamber is too hot, probably around 45 C, it is also likely to cause an air print
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

dsiegfried
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby dsiegfried » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:49 pm

I store all my filament in a desiccant cabinet. However, this filament is new, just got it and works fine on my other printers.
I'm not sure how to "insulate the hotends". I never heard of anyone doing that. It might interfere with the cooling of the cold end portion of the hot end, if that makes sense.

firesped
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby firesped » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:01 pm

it's something like this but I did changed it on my current one. I did not put the insulation on top on the current one, just the sides and bottom. also did another change.

I wrapped the hotend with kapton tape first because the ceramic fiber will burn to the hotend.

ceramic fiber insulation piece
IMG_0476.JPG



IMG_0477.JPG


IMG_0478.JPG


IMG_0479.JPG


IMG_0480.JPG


secure it with kapton tape

What this does is, blocks the heat from the hotend going into the print and also makes the hotend temp more stable.

as far as insulating the hotend, It was something I picked up form all the far more experienced people. But discussion on it was from very early on.

Another reason for it, is it will protect the hotend from the ultimate disaster. a plastic encased hotend. Very much less likely to happen and if it does, the hotend will have a barrier protecting it directly from the plastic.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

firesped
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Still getting Air Printing with V2 & PLA

Postby firesped » Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:04 am

I just realized WHY my PLA+ print failed the other day. I had been printing in ABS and forgot to remove the fan duct covers when I went to print in PLA+
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2


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