Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

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2CNK
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Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby 2CNK » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:47 am

This was a little interesting. My N2 came with filment tube guides but no directions on what to do with them. I figured it out and printed fine, except I like to put the lid on my printer when the printer is not being used, and the lid squashes the filament guides down which I didn't like.

Support said the printer will work fine without the extra guide stuff, so when I changed filament I ditched the guides and just went "stock" as described in the user manual.

After printing two 3DBenchy boats (so only 3 hours of printing), thanks to the clear cover I noticed my print head looked like this (it looks more striking and worse in person than in the photo):

Image

This is the inside without the cover:

Image

And the inside of cover itself:

Image


Some work with a handheld vacuum and a toothbrush seems to have cleaned it all out. Thank goodness for the clear extruder cover, this was probably a jam waiting to happen.

I suspect that leaving out the filament guide increases stress on the filament somehow, and the extruder gear winds up grinding the filament somewhat. This seems like a lot of powdered filament for only two benchy boats.

Anyone else encounter similar things, or have other ideas about why this happened? Maybe this is old news, I didn't see any mention of something similar but may have missed it; the forums are really hard to work through and get up to speed on for someone coming into this "cold".

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:50 am

Please check whether your extruder cover is assembled properly. Loose the fix screws a little with filament inside. Make sure the filament guide tunnel is aligned. Then tighten the screws.

Zettlinger
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby Zettlinger » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:21 am

If you mean the tubes going from the side of the printer to the printhead.... you NEED them, if you do not use them eventually the printer will jam on you. The problem is is when the printer prints near the filament then sudenly moves to the right it will pull on the filament so hard it can bend it and stop feeding.

My advice dont print without the filament guide (ptfe tube to the side of the printer) and Julias mod to hold it on the top (there is another version that looks even fancier, it might be in the sticky STL list)

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2CNK
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby 2CNK » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:53 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Please check whether your extruder cover is assembled properly. Loose the fix screws a little with filament inside. Make sure the filament guide tunnel is aligned. Then tighten the screws.


Thanks for the tip, it seems assembled correctly - everything seems straight and there is no binding.

Zettlinger wrote:If you mean the tubes going from the side of the printer to the printhead.... you NEED them, if you do not use them eventually the printer will jam on you. The problem is is when the printer prints near the filament then sudenly moves to the right it will pull on the filament so hard it can bend it and stop feeding.

My advice dont print without the filament guide (ptfe tube to the side of the printer) and Julias mod to hold it on the top (there is another version that looks even fancier, it might be in the sticky STL list)


I think I see that now; I think the extruder gear abrading the filament from that sort of yanking is what led to all the dust. I re-installed them. documentation doesn't mention anything about them and support seemed to be telling me they were optional, so I gave it a shot without.

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2CNK
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby 2CNK » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:06 pm

Some additional information related to this popped up while I was working on another issue.

See this post for photos:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=504&p=4785#p4785

Short version:
I have cleaned filament dust out of my extruder head probably 4 times total since getting my printer a short time ago.
My recent inspection suggests it is not the fault of the extruder gear "grinding" the filament.
Most recently I inspected the filament after seeing dust appear rapidly with increased retraction amount and retraction speed: the filament is indented with clean "teeth marks" from the extruder gear on one side, and the opposite side from the teeth is visibly scraped and abraded.

I suspect there is some sharp edge on or near the idler side that the filament is scraping against, and it becomes more apparent the more retractions there are. It also seems to happen to some extent no matter what, because as mentioned I have cleaned "dust" out of my head probably 4 times so far, printing with a variety of settings.

Has anyone noticed something similar?

lylewaters
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby lylewaters » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:21 am

I have noticed exactly the same as you have and I now also have some jamming issues.

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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby Jetguy » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:29 pm

Related topic viewtopic.php?f=4&t=269&p=2544&hilit=wear#p2540

Postby John@Raise3D
"It is normal. Do not worry."

lylewaters
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby lylewaters » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:57 pm

Yeah, regardless of the fine dust in the extruder being normal, my extruder feeder motor clicks with nothing (filament) in the feeder when I try to load filament. This I believe is not normal. Trouble ticket opened.

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John@Raise3D
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby John@Raise3D » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:35 pm

lylewaters wrote:Yeah, regardless of the fine dust in the extruder being normal, my extruder feeder motor clicks with nothing (filament) in the feeder when I try to load filament. This I believe is not normal. Trouble ticket opened.


Please remove the extruder cover and take a close picture of the feeder gear. We can start from there.

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2CNK
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby 2CNK » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:48 pm

Jetguy wrote:Related topic viewtopic.php?f=4&t=269&p=2544&hilit=wear#p2540

Postby John@Raise3D
"It is normal. Do not worry."


That's interesting, but that thread talks about the aluminum wearing away, what I have is fine filament dust (it was yellow when using yellow PLA, and it was black when I switched to black Polymax.)

I semi-regularly remove the extruder cover and clean it out with a handheld vacuum and toothbrush. I haven't had jams or anything, so far it's just something that happens.

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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:19 pm

If you cannot see that 2 items, wear and filament dust are related, then it's going be a long hard time for you.

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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:53 pm

I'm sorry that you and Lyle are struggling but when we try to help, I can count where both of you reply back to not just me, but to other members too, and more or less blow off answers we gave you. It's extremely frustrating to try and help either one of you when you reply back as you just did.
"That's interesting, but that thread talks about the aluminum wearing away, what I have is fine filament dust"

If you really don't understand and didn't see that as related, I'm not saying this to be a jerk to you, I'm saying whoa, stop, Houston, we have a problem.

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2CNK
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby 2CNK » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:58 pm

I literally meant that the link you provided was very interesting, and also that I don't personally see any aluminum wear on my own extruder (yet?) I try to update my posts with things I learned and fill out context to help anyone reading who might be in my shoes.

I honestly have never read something you or others suggest or propose and blown it off mentally. I'll take more care in my responses because if that's how it comes across to you I feel genuinely bad about that.

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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:39 am

Not trying to nitpick here, just pointing out that people feel I'm overly harsh, well it's a 2 way street.
For example, Lyle kicked in and said this for no good reason in this thread.
"Yeah, regardless of the fine dust in the extruder being normal, my extruder feeder motor clicks with nothing (filament) in the feeder when I try to load filament. This I believe is not normal. "

Correct, skipping steps (clicking as he called it) shows that "the new guys" are not using the technical information (what is skipped steps, what does it mean), and threw that in the middle of your thread on dust.

Again, I'm frustrated in trying to educate the new folks in that when I use technical language as industry standard, I'm getting off the street "new guy" replies. Sorry for grouping you two together.

The point is education, understanding of fundamentals. This stuff is not in "the" manual or a manual. All current consumer 3D printers use steppers, and truly understanding them is key. When I see new folks call them servos, reply with "it clicks", they are not repeating the technical language which makes me ask if they learned anything for all the info pointed at them. Further, if you aren't using technical terms, searching doesn't work well for you for info. My extruder is clicking is NOT a good search term. My extruder motor is skipping steps without any filament loaded- well that's a stepper or mechanical issue.

I don't want you to thank me, I don't want anything in return. But, when folks reply in the manner seen here, the little hairs rise on the back of my neck. Simply learn and use the correct terminology at a minimum. It's a 2 way street no different than being in school. Teachers use the same method and when the student replies back with street terms, the teacher assumes the student needs more correction. Again, when I see new guys do this over and ever and over, it shows me a lack of respect. Use of the word "thingy" is another one that I know the thread is not going well. Calling a thermocouple a "thermocoupler" sends me through the roof. Why? because searching the word thermocoupler links you to tutorials on Google. Searching for thermocoupler leads you to a bunch of other new guys who don't know the first thing about how it works, let alone help you fix yours.

I genuinely want to help you learn, but learn the right info, not the sea of total chaos that floats the 3D printing forums.

lylewaters
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby lylewaters » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:02 am

Jetguy wrote:Not trying to nitpick here, just pointing out that people feel I'm overly harsh, well it's a 2 way street.
For example, Lyle kicked in and said this for no good reason in this thread.
"Yeah, regardless of the fine dust in the extruder being normal, my extruder feeder motor clicks with nothing (filament) in the feeder when I try to load filament. This I believe is not normal. "

Correct, skipping steps (clicking as he called it) shows that "the new guys" are not using the technical information (what is skipped steps, what does it mean), and threw that in the middle of your thread on dust.

Again, I'm frustrated in trying to educate the new folks in that when I use technical language as industry standard, I'm getting off the street "new guy" replies. Sorry for grouping you two together.

The point is education, understanding of fundamentals. This stuff is not in "the" manual or a manual. All current consumer 3D printers use steppers, and truly understanding them is key. When I see new folks call them servos, reply with "it clicks", they are not repeating the technical language which makes me ask if they learned anything for all the info pointed at them. Further, if you aren't using technical terms, searching doesn't work well for you for info. My extruder is clicking is NOT a good search term. My extruder motor is skipping steps without any filament loaded- well that's a stepper or mechanical issue.

I don't want you to thank me, I don't want anything in return. But, when folks reply in the manner seen here, the little hairs rise on the back of my neck. Simply learn and use the correct terminology at a minimum. It's a 2 way street no different than being in school. Teachers use the same method and when the student replies back with street terms, the teacher assumes the student needs more correction. Again, when I see new guys do this over and ever and over, it shows me a lack of respect. Use of the word "thingy" is another one that I know the thread is not going well. Calling a thermocouple a "thermocoupler" sends me through the roof. Why? because searching the word thermocoupler links you to tutorials on Google. Searching for thermocoupler leads you to a bunch of other new guys who don't know the first thing about how it works, let alone help you fix yours.

I genuinely want to help you learn, but learn the right info, not the sea of total chaos that floats the 3D printing forums.

Vernon,

When you're a part of a community that includes new users and experienced users, there is going to be a difference in the terminology used. I understand that you want "the new guys" to use correct terminology and fully understand that if we search on Google using incorrect terminology, we're going to find a lot of results that might be from other novice users. This is understandable for any technology/community/topic. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'm not searching Google. I'm reading this forum and getting help from users in this forum with the same hardware that I have. Do I know that my 3d printer uses stepper motors? Yes. Did I know that the correct term for hearing my stepper motor clicking was "skipping steps"? No. Was it WRONG for me to say that it was clicking? No, because that is what it was doing. Did my choice of vocabulary lead us down an incorrect path? No. The "technical language" street runs two ways. If someone uses technical language and doesn't necessarily know what it means, that can also cause problems. I have already stated several times that I am a novice user with this printer. I'm not trying to use big words or technical language, especially if I am not sure what it means.

Before I had to take a part my extruder I didn't know what a throat tube was. I still don't know if it's correct to call the extruder part the extruder because I'm not exactly sure which parts are technically part of the extruder. I mean, there is a stepper motor, a gear connected to that motor, a bearing that the filament rides on, some kind of block that the filament goes into, the throat tube, the heat sink, the thermocouple, the heat tube, the nozzle, and various other parts. I can see how someone could call the extruder the whole thing. The hot end just the hot parts of the extruder. What do we call the non-hot parts? I've been calling it the cold parts. The "cold end" doesn't sound right, I haven't read too many people referring to it as such. The point of all of this is just to say that as new users, sometimes we're not going to use the right language. We're new and don't yet have enough experience. If we're new and try to sound smart by using all kinds of technical language, that could run us into some problems as well with people thinking we know more than we do and maybe skipping some troubleshooting steps that would prove useful.

This is a community. You're the only experienced user here that I see giving new users grief about their questions and choice of terminology. Instead of shitting on us, why don't you try to be a little bit nicer? I mean, I appreciate the help either way, but then all of us would spent a lot less time writing long messages like this and we could spend time focusing on the problems.

lylewaters
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Re: Filament "dust" appeared in print head by extruder gear and idler wheel

Postby lylewaters » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:13 am

John@Raise3D wrote:
lylewaters wrote:Yeah, regardless of the fine dust in the extruder being normal, my extruder feeder motor clicks with nothing (filament) in the feeder when I try to load filament. This I believe is not normal. Trouble ticket opened.


Please remove the extruder cover and take a close picture of the feeder gear. We can start from there.

John,

I'm attaching a picture as you requested. Thanks.

Lyle.
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