eSun ABS+ tips?

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JohnSays
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eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby JohnSays » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:57 am

I am printing my first real calibration box. I am using eSun ABS+ black on my N2. I measured the filament at exactly 1.70 mm from three different places on thefilament and entered that into IdeaMaker. I have tried various bed temperatures, nozzle temperatures, and speeds. One thing remains constant though and that is that the top is always lower than the sides and there are always little pips on the top of the sides. I also got some ringing. So, I am reducing the speed to try to stop the ringing, increased the filament diameter to increase the flow rate beyond 100 and removed retraction. I have tried a number of things to resolve the above problem without success. Is there writeup on the best way to go about solving the various problems that the calibration might reveal? I have read the article on "Slicer Calibration" as written for the Raise3D.

Okay, my print just finished. I had set the diameter of the filament to 1.89 just to see what would happen. Well the top is as flat as I have yet seen it. So what's up with that? In fact, this is the best print yet by a mile. I have remeasured the filament several times now just to check myself, and always I come up with 1.70 mm except for one time it was 1.68 mm. The ringing is substantially better but I will slow it down just a bit more.

The top is actually dead even with the shell on the left side but a tad below the right side shell and front and back side shell walls. That's a bit odd. Any ideas?

Also, I was able to pull the outer shell right off the inner shells with my finger nail. Is this usual? I printed with 3 shells. I notice that the prints with 5 shells cannot be pulled apart. Yet, (coming back after 30 minutes) this last print I did just now has 5 shells and every one is disconnected from all the others. A shame too because this print looks so perfect I thought I had finally nailed it. The ringing is almost non-existent, the corners are sharp, and the top is flat. So why are the shells splitting? I did decrease the speed from 70 to 40 to relieve the ringing. Is that it?
Last edited by JohnSays on Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- John

2 Raise3D N2 Duals, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection, Firmware 1.1.9ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette 2 Pro, Custom E3D hot end and ultra-light carriage and printer head

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:27 pm

Hi John,

Would you like to share me some pictures of your fails. Need to check the ringing, pipes, not flat top surface, outer shell problem.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:36 pm

And the lower problem of top layer is possible a flowrate problem. Please set the diameter back to 1.75. And try lower the flowrate to check whether it helps. 85% may work.
Please advise how much flowrate did you try.

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JohnSays
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby JohnSays » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:35 pm

Ringing but with all 5 shell layers apparently stuck together:
IMG_4346.JPG


Ringing but with all 3 shell layers apparently stuck together:
IMG_4356.JPG


Little to no ringing. Three shells:
IMG_4358.JPG


Little to no ringing. Five shells all loose:
IMG_4360.JPG


IMG_4367.JPG
- John

2 Raise3D N2 Duals, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection, Firmware 1.1.9ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette 2 Pro, Custom E3D hot end and ultra-light carriage and printer head

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JohnSays
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby JohnSays » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:22 pm

I set the Diameter to 1.75mm and the flowrate to 85% in the filament setup dialog and left everything else the same as my last print. The shells still separate, but it looks good. Strangely, the box did fill to the top on a smaller diameter and 15% less flowrate. Why is that?

IMG_4380.JPG


IMG_4379.JPG


IMG_4377.JPG



By the way, on the Filament Settings on the update dialog display the field is named as "Flowrate," but as "Compensation" on the create dialog.
- John

2 Raise3D N2 Duals, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection, Firmware 1.1.9ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette 2 Pro, Custom E3D hot end and ultra-light carriage and printer head

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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby JohnSays » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:20 pm

I just read on a blog that I should begin testing filament at the highest temperature and working down from there. I have been printing with the ABS+ at 230C. I am now trying 260C, Flowrate to 100% in the filament dialog, but each individual flowrate set to 85%. (Not sure that that makes any difference at all.) I also returned the speeds to a default of 50, infill at 70, outer shell at 40 and inner at 50.

Well that solved the shell separation problem! Ringing picked up again at this speed.

IMG_4393.JPG


This one side was not good:
IMG_4392.JPG


Next I will try dropping the temperature to 255C. I will use the settings I used to get my best print but with the increased temperature.

IMG_4394.JPG

IMG_4395.JPG


Well this is the best so far. The shells are fused and there is less ringing. Next I will lower the temperature to 250 and the bed temp from 110 to 100. The speed is already pretty low at 25 for the outside shells and 40 for the inside. So I'd like to see what can be done without going slower. I am also going to make one other change: Reduce the flowrate for the first layer because it seems to spread out a little farther than the body of the box.
- John

2 Raise3D N2 Duals, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection, Firmware 1.1.9ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette 2 Pro, Custom E3D hot end and ultra-light carriage and printer head

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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby Jetguy » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:40 pm

You have the screen door effect going on with your roof infill indicating under extrusion or lack of enough layers and material under too build upon and cause the layer lines to spread to the width the slicer thinks they should have been.

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... top-layers

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JohnSays
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby JohnSays » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:06 pm

Wow JetGuy! Thanks. This is just the info I needed at Simplfy3D. The box is 100% fill with 5 roof layers and 5 shells. I can try moving the flowrate up from 85% to 95% and see what happens.

Part of my problem is that I do not know what the capabilities of the N2 are. I do not want to have an unreal expectation, but I want to be able to make the best prints the machine is capable of doing for a particular purpose. I have nothing to compare my current output to the expected output. It would be really nice to have in my hand examples of different material printing the calibration box at the N2's best for a particular resolution.
- John

2 Raise3D N2 Duals, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection, Firmware 1.1.9ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette 2 Pro, Custom E3D hot end and ultra-light carriage and printer head

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jmp
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby jmp » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:44 am

JohnSays wrote:Part of my problem is that I do not know what the capabilities of the N2 are.


Unfortunately that's like going into an appliance store and asking what is the highest quality of cooking a stove can do. 90% of any cooking is the ingredients and the skill of the chef. 3D printing is quite similar, most of the quality of a print is dependent on the skill of the person doing the printing and the quality of the materials. The raise3D printers are capable of some incredible quality prints (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=293), and capable of total trash (I personally have done both with my n2+). The question is how many test prints do you want to go through to nail down the perfect settings for your model, filament, the quirks of your particular printer, and environment.
RL Name: Jason Preuss Thingiverse: JMP Youtube:http://youtube.com/c/patterntoprint Website: http://www.patterntoprint.com

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:11 am

JohnSays wrote:By the way, on the Filament Settings on the update dialog display the field is named as "Flowrate," but as "Compensation" on the create dialog.


It's a typo. We will fix it in next version. Thank you for feedback.

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JohnSays
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby JohnSays » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:29 am

Well maybe. I mean there must be some physical limit to the machine itself that under perfect conditions cannot be improved upon -- yet. I've now printed 18 calibration boxes for eSun ABS+ and each has gotten better. Some much better than the last. So where do I stop? The easy answer is, "Where I am happy." But what if I cannot achieve that because the technology isn't up to it yet? How do I know? For now the answer is to ask if I get stuck.

Today and yesterday I got pointed in the right direction to understand a little more about how to judge a print. But because I still have a long way to go, I'll be posting questions. But less and less as time goes on I'm sure.
- John

2 Raise3D N2 Duals, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection, Firmware 1.1.9ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette 2 Pro, Custom E3D hot end and ultra-light carriage and printer head

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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby Zettlinger » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:38 am

Never stop asking questions :) (unless it is a repeated question!)

firesped
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby firesped » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:31 am

from the information I read, you print a calibration cube 20mm x 20mm x 10mm high at .2 mm layer and 100% infill rate. You are checking for X and Y compensation. How far off are the X and Y from what they are supposed to be? In this case the precent difference from 20mm model size to size of the actual print. You are also checking for Over and Under Extrusion on the top layers.

Note, you want your nozzle about .25mm from the print bed. Having it set to high will force the temperature higher to get it to print and there will be quality issues.

I'm looking into getting this filament soon. I have some esun ABS and it printed really well, even on the V1.
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xygote
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby xygote » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:13 pm

I accidentally bought some of this stuff (wanted PLA+) and didn't notice until the 3rd print attempt. Kept lifting off the buildtak. After I noticed, treated it like ABS and still couldn't get it to stick to buildtak. Tried 100-120C build plate and hairspray. I haven't had any luck with any ABS so far. I am a noob so I probably don't know the tricks yet.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:38 am

xygote wrote:I accidentally bought some of this stuff (wanted PLA+) and didn't notice until the 3rd print attempt. Kept lifting off the buildtak. After I noticed, treated it like ABS and still couldn't get it to stick to buildtak. Tried 100-120C build plate and hairspray. I haven't had any luck with any ABS so far. I am a noob so I probably don't know the tricks yet.


Did you check the distance between nozzle and build plate?
Did you assemble the bottom fan cover in the accessory?

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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby xygote » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:54 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
xygote wrote:I accidentally bought some of this stuff (wanted PLA+) and didn't notice until the 3rd print attempt. Kept lifting off the buildtak. After I noticed, treated it like ABS and still couldn't get it to stick to buildtak. Tried 100-120C build plate and hairspray. I haven't had any luck with any ABS so far. I am a noob so I probably don't know the tricks yet.


Did you check the distance between nozzle and build plate?
Did you assemble the bottom fan cover in the accessory?


I did not cover the fans. I was wondering if I should do that. Thanks for the info.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:35 pm

It should in the accessory.

1.jpg
3.jpg
2.jpg

xygote
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby xygote » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:31 pm

This weekend I focused on getting a good ABS print. Using eSun ABS+ @ 230C, 94% flow, 100C build plate and AQ Xtra hairspray and covering the fans, was able to get some good results. Found that the raft is really bad for abs, just print on the plate. Also, the shape of your item matters. Felt pretty confident so I went for it, a big build http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1015178, honestly expecting it to fail within the base.

10 Hours later looking good got past the long bridging parts I was worried about, so I went to bed. Woke up this morning to an absolute horror show.
000_0262.JPG


That is as far as it got. It appears one of the fins warped enough to catch the nozzle and moved it out of alignment. Here is the spot.
000_0264.JPG


The funny thing is that I got so good at making sure that abs sticks that it didn't break from the build plate, but it move the entire plate over. The rest is where the horror comes in. Birds nest is the first thing I noticed. BOTH of the fans had 1 piece of filament in each, stopping them. The entire extruder assembly was extremely hot, surprised it didn't melt or warp any of fan ducts or filament guide. When I hit stop, one of the motors made a grindy noise when it reached home position. Heres the birds nest.
000_0265.JPG


After it cooled down a bit I ran some basic functionality tests and all the axis seem to function normally, fans spin and it extrudes. Looks like it could have been worse.

So, future plans is to make a guard for my fans with a screen on it so no filament can get in and learn how to make abs not warp as much.

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JohnSays
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby JohnSays » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:47 pm

So have you worked out what started this mess?
- John

2 Raise3D N2 Duals, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection, Firmware 1.1.9ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette 2 Pro, Custom E3D hot end and ultra-light carriage and printer head

xygote
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Re: eSun ABS+ tips?

Postby xygote » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:57 pm

JohnSays wrote:So have you worked out what started this mess?


From the second pic, it looks like the nozzle hit the fin. My guess is that the ABS warped because it cooled to fast and raised the level of the fin. This is most likely from the distance from the heat bed no longer receiving much heat from it. Though the N2+ is enclosed and you should use that for ABS, I did not because I had not printed the control box cooling mod http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1513773 and feared stepper driver overheat which would cause the print to fail anyway.

I need to get a camera so I can review prints and where they went wrong.


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