Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

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jetdillo
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Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby jetdillo » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:22 am

If you own and use something long enough, you'll eventually find all the different ways to break it :)

I've had a couple really bad jams over the past day or so where I got the "click of death" from the Bondtech trying to advance in more filament and getting stuck. What's been particularly bad about this is that, after I stopped the print and tried to either pre-load or unload the stuck filament, it clicked in either direction. So I had to unscrew the hot-end from the carriage, clip the filament at the top, unscrew the "hatch" on the bondtech and then pull the filament out. When I did this for the 2nd time today and opened the "hatch" on the Bondtech, I found the outside meshing gear out of its holder and stuck in the inner works. Which totally explains why I couldn't advance it back out either.

It looks like the little axle can pop out of the gear hub enough so that the gear falls out of the holder and into the internal assembly.
The gear fits back into its slot on the "hatch" and clicks solidly into place. I don't know how much "play" that axle is supposed to have or if it wears out over time. I have a dual extrusion setup, which is handy a couple times a year, but it's safe to say that about 90% of the time on the printer is on the left side. The outer gear on the right side of the DualDirect also has a little play, but not nearly as much.

I'm also only hypothesizing about the root cause of this failure. I know that something in the Bondtech is jamming and making it impossible to extrude or unload with the hatch(es) closed and everything in position for normal operation. I've had plenty of filament jams, but have never run into a situation where it's stuck hard to advance or unload. When I open the left hatch to inspect, I've consistently found the outer gear inside.

It's also curious that the couple times that this has happened, it's been at random points in a print. Once this morning about 92% of the way through a 4.5 hour print, then later this afternoon as it was putting down the first layer.

I've dropped Bondtech an email at their support page too, but posting here to see if this a problem others have run into and to just kick the problem around a bit.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:08 am

Please open a support ticket at http://help.raise3d.com. Our technicians will guide you through disassmble the extruder and ask for pictures inside to confirm the issue and have to solve it.

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jetdillo
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Re: Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby jetdillo » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:55 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Please open a support ticket at http://help.raise3d.com. Our technicians will guide you through disassmble the extruder and ask for pictures inside to confirm the issue and have to solve it.


Cool.
Thanks Vicky!

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jetdillo
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Re: Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby jetdillo » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:11 am

Update:
I opened up the hatch on the right extruder and got the gear out to do some comparisons.
I put them both under the USB microscope I keep on my bench and noticed there is some distinct wear between the left gear and axle and right one.

Bondtech_Axles.jpg

I probably wouldn't have noticed this if I hadn't examined them this closely, but the left one is more worn than the right. Maybe enough to let it slip out ?

Also, you can see that the Left Gear has some wear on the teeth:
2020-04-13-192833.jpg


While the right one is practically untouched:
Bondtech_Right_Gear.jpg


This is not entirely unexpected since I use the left side for just about everything from PLA to TPU to NylonX and everything in between.
The right side, when I have the printer rigged for dual extrusion usually just prints support materials like PVA or PolySupport, etc.

Hopefully fixing this will just be a matter of getting the appropriate spares from Bondtech....

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:03 pm

Would you like to advise what printer you are using, Pro or N-series with Bondtech upgrade?
If you are using N series printer with the upgrade you should can source replacement parts from Bondtech directly. I'm just not sure whether they sell indiviual parts instead of the whole thing or not.

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jetdillo
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Re: Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby jetdillo » Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:31 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Would you like to advise what printer you are using, Pro or N-series with Bondtech upgrade?
If you are using N series printer with the upgrade you should can source replacement parts from Bondtech directly. I'm just not sure whether they sell indiviual parts instead of the whole thing or not.


I have an N2+ with the Bondtech Dual Direct.
I've contacted Bondtech directly and they are supposed to be putting together a kit for me.
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks!

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jetdillo
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Re: Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby jetdillo » Sat May 16, 2020 5:54 pm

jetdillo wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Would you like to advise what printer you are using, Pro or N-series with Bondtech upgrade?
If you are using N series printer with the upgrade you should can source replacement parts from Bondtech directly. I'm just not sure whether they sell indiviual parts instead of the whole thing or not.


I have an N2+ with the Bondtech Dual Direct.
I've contacted Bondtech directly and they are supposed to be putting together a kit for me.
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks!


I just wanted to drop a note here and say that I got a replacement kit from Bondtech including a pair of gears for each extruder and a new pair of doors. Marcus @ Bondtech was great about putting together an order for me with all the parts I need. The printer has been back up and running for a good couple weeks and is back to its amazing self. Seems like all the problems I've been having over the past couple months which I'd put down to bad/wet filament, alignment, clogged extruders, worn nozzles, dying thermocouples, etc. were probably all due to the gears slowly wearing away.

The new ones from Bondtech are plated/treated to stand up better to abrasive filaments and general wear and tear. We'll see how they hold out over the next few years :)
I've been involved in a number of projects printing PPE for COVID-19 response teams and am just about through a 3Kg spool of PLA on the new gears. So that kind of wraps up this particular story :)

GEGE
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Re: Bondtech gear looks like it's popping out, causing major jam

Postby GEGE » Sun May 17, 2020 4:26 pm

Hi ,
I had the same issue, after extruding over 30Kg of ASA, I was getting more and more grinding issues, problem in Unloading/loading (I do loading only now), lack of filament deposition leaving gaps in layers. This using the left extruder side.
I discussed with Bondtech people (Martin Bondeus), he told me it was most probably a Heat Creep issue, that looked strange to me, because I never had any issues before and the problem became severe in a few days.
After spending days trying to find a better way to cool down the heat sink, I decided to try to use the left extruder side, which I never use because I do only single extrusions.
All went back to normal so I told that to Martin but they didn't suggest anything even the issue was clearly due only to wear in the right side, except buying a replace set of gears I don't have much solutions but at €30 the set, that starts to become an expensive upgrade !!! TRIANGLE LAB on AliExpress have gears sets at $15 looking strangely the same as the Bondtech replacement gears.
Gege


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