N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
mitchfx
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N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby mitchfx » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:26 pm

I have the first gen N2+ and have noticed its impossible to smoothly roll the unit in different directions due to the fact the casters are mounted to the base using bolts with large, protruding heads. These heads prevent the casters from being able to pivot a full 360 degrees, thus all four wheels are often not in correct alignment. I've even gouged a scratch into my floor due to this!

Has anyone replaced the stock mounting screws to remedy this? Are newer units shipping with this issue addressed?

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walshlg
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby walshlg » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:43 pm

hmm mine doesn't do this, you unlocked the wheels didn't you?

mitchfx
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby mitchfx » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:59 pm

Oh yes, they are for sure unlocked and the wheels spin freely in each housing. The issue is that the casters can only swivel about 120 degrees in either direction before bumping into a mounting screw.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:51 pm

***Correction*** My current N2Plus with castors and the newer black motors does have this issue. I mistakenly had not realized I removed the lower base cover and thus because that cover was not there, the 4 screws that the castors hit are the mounting screws for that plastic cover, not the castor mounting screws themselves.
Last edited by Jetguy on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Brandon
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Brandon » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:00 pm

mitchfx,

What is the Serial Number of your printer? How long ago did you receive it?

mitchfx
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby mitchfx » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:24 pm

Brandon,

I'm out of town right now but will get you that serial number when I return. My printer was one of the first batches from the KS campaign and shipped with the V1 hot end and defective build plate design (shorted out within a week).

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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby mitchfx » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:54 pm

My printer was received on March 7, 2016. Here are photos of serial and one of the bolts

Thanks,
Mitch
Attachments
image.jpeg
image.jpeg

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:11 pm

Oh, so from that picture, it's the brake of the castor that in certain positions, will rotate and hit the screw holding the plastic lower base cover, not the actual castor mounting screws. Still M4.

Hmm, I know I took my cover off to change the Z motor, add motor dampener, and also add a secondary external PSU cooling fan so that only in extreme situations does the internal fan kick in. So what I have is an 80mm near silent fan constantly sucking air out the PSU past the internal fan. Since the internal fan is temp controlled and off normally, what would happen is, the PSU warms up even when not printing, and the internal PSU fan cycles on off. This was annoying to me. So, by forcing a slow but constant near silent airflow, the PSU internal stays off in all but extreme load conditions, and then just like normal, forces more air to cool the system, but again, 90% of the time, this second silent fan just runs and since it's not changing speed= no more annoying on off fan noise.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:16 pm

I have some perfect screws from Adafruit for that spot. 50 for $5.96 https://www.adafruit.com/product/1159
Heck, PM me and I'll send you 4 screws if you are in the US.
I have tons of these because I use them for my 20x20 aluminum extrusion based projects and builds. I buy them in bulk.
Or, I just use good old Amazon prime, slap in your address, and you get them. Just saying, the postage alone for 4 screws is more than anything about the actual screws.

You just need M4 by about 10mm long, and button head style or even a countersunk style. Again, once you figure shipping, I can get 100 screws, more than you could ever want, for the cost of just USPS flat rate box mail, which is how Raise 3D is likely to send. They are spending $6-8 to mail even the smallest thing. I use the heck out of Prime.
100 black M4 x10mm button head for $9.06 shipped
https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-M4x10mm-T ... B01B1OD3YS

Here is super nice countersunk stainless, 100 count for $8.58 shipped to your door. https://www.amazon.com/M4-0-70-Socket-S ... B01E9NNW3A

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:30 pm

Also, FYI, nearly all of the fasteners on the printer are M4, so having spares isn't the worst idea. All the outer clear panel screws, the hinge screws on the doors, other mounting, nearly everything is M4 in various lengths.

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Brandon
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Brandon » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:36 pm

mitchfx,

So I have verified this was an issue in our earlier design. It was later changed in newer designs. As this in not just a change to the fasteners but the frame, it may not be as easy as changing the fasteners. This design change took place over a year ago and was implemented at that time, so current printers shipping would not have this issue.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:45 pm

What was the design change? The reason I ask, I have a recent N2Plus myself, and while investigating the lower cover fastener picture posted above, I realized that I didn't have my cover installed (because I removed it on the first day to make a cooling fan mod to the power supply and also added an Astrosyn dampener to the Z axis motor), and just confirmed if put that cover back on with the factory screws, I have same issue, where the brake handles on the castors hit the mounting screws of the lower frame cover.

What is the "official" factory fix?

Right here is proof on mine, the factory M4 cap screws with lock washer and a flat washer are too tall and hit the castor is it rotates 360.
IMG_0713.JPG

IMG_0711.JPG

IMG_0712.JPG



And then, per my recommendation and proof that a shorter pan head style cap screw with no washer easily clears the castor by at least 2mm.
IMG_0715[1].JPG


My label
IMG_0714[1].JPG
Last edited by Jetguy on Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:48 pm

Going further, we really need a posted chart of serial number ranges, since these were built in batches, so we as users can be aware of changes made, problems identified, recalls, and other problems.

Again, facts surrounding this. You said, "This design change took place over a year ago and was implemented at that time, so current printers shipping would not have this issue."

I just got my N2Plus Feb 10th, 2017 direct from Raise 3D in California.
It has the newer black motors discussed in the other extruder and general motor heating problem thread.
It has this castor hitting the lower baseplate issues.

Oh, and a QC issue, where one of those lower cover mounting m4 holes tapped in the frame was stripped and the screw was hanging half out, the other reason why on day one I took it off and "forgot" to put it back, I couldn't put it back because I have to drill a tap a new hole, or replace the entire box tubing tapped frame rail because the tapped hole is stripped.

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:59 pm

BTW, the offer still stands, I'll personally ship you 4 screws that do fix the problem if this isn't resolved by tech support today.

mitchfx
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby mitchfx » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:21 pm

Jetguy,

I'll take you up on that offer. Thanks! It seems that your forums settings don't allow PM'ing so please let me know how I can send you my mailing address.

Thanks again,
Mitch

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:02 pm

Screw set sent (various assorted sizes as spares), will be there Saturday. Happy printing and no more scratched floors!!

Should give you a general instruction. I would remove the filament spools and filament spool holder bracket things (if you have the Kickstarter or early unit, you have nice heavy metal ones) because we need to tip the printer on it's side.
I always tip it on a large bath towel on the floor to prevent scratches. I tip it if you are facing front, to the left side down. the logic and reason behind that is the plastic lower base is mostly a cosmetic part. The printer frame and main metal is mostly to the left side of the printer when facing from the front. By tipping it on that side down, the frame is resting directly on the limited side panel, and so you run less risk of damage VS, tipping any other way. Then just one by one, swap the screws holding that lower plastic cover, there are only 4.
The reason I said ensure you unload filament and remove the spools first, also make sure the glass build plate is either clipped in or removed, because tipping sideways can send those parts a flying, and you'll regret it as that bang and fall down if you don't remove or secure them before tipping.

Should be pretty painless other than tipping the entire printer over. You might be able to just change the screws without tipping, but it's a tight fit.

jamma
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby jamma » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:31 am

I had this problem too; scratched new floors as a result, which my wife still hasn't gotten over--probably never will. Not having the correct M4 screws, but having a large box of washers, I shimmed up the casters themselves, using 5 washers under each bolt of each caster. Yup, 20 washers per caster, so 80 total. I would *not* recommend this approach. :roll:

Ari
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Ari » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:50 pm

@jamma

Bad luck with the new floors :cry:. You could always print yourself a nice set of spacers to provide clearance for the castors and then reclaim your washers.

Ari

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:09 am

So the question(s) remains to Raise 3D.
#1 what was this supposed design change that neither I nor several other N2 Plus customers have received. Again, it was stated a design change was made, and yet I and many people here have brand spanking new N2+ with the new motors and the other known late model changes and so far nobody has been able to show the factory fix.
#2 I personally sent user @mitchfx a screw kit under a pay it forward situation to help him and other users since Raise3D has not addressed this issue.
#3 Why are users not being notified of design flaws and or changes for a given model range?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: N2 Plus Casters (Wheels) Can't Swivel 360

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:38 am

Here is the current design of this in our factory.
1.jpg
2.jpg


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