Project Bondtech Extruder

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
firesped
Posts: 854
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Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:25 pm

firmware based on firmware 1.1.6 upgraded for Hybrid mode.

N1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/38qmrc582x456 ... .firm?dl=0

N2 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/c32t9epeit1yk ... .firm?dl=0

N2 PLUS - https://www.dropbox.com/s/na4b2cz1nm2xw ... .firm?dl=0

Default extruder step-e is set to same step-e as normal firmware @94. Contain Hybrid mode. Hybrid mode overrides step-e values. Hybrid mode works during filament load.

default for extruder 0 is 140
default for extruder 1 is 476.5

These can be changed with added gcode, M992

M992 H0 = hybrid mode off
M992 H1 = hybrid mode on
M992 T0 E# will set step-e for extruder 0 (left side)
M992 T1 E# will set step-e for extruder 1 (right side)

example: M992 T1 E140
This will set the right side to step-e 140.

Changes will be lost if you reboot the printer.

let me know if there is another configuration you might want?

edit: adding some more configurations.

Mini configuration. 2 extruders at step-e 140

N1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/gc0qd64qixhpn ... .firm?dl=0
N2 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8q3vmp37slu13 ... .firm?dl=0
N2+ - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ii6e9lt8utvtl ... .firm?dl=0

Hybrid mode default off. functions like normal printer but can turn hybrid mode on.

N1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/py4o6vvq0x8so ... .firm?dl=0
N2 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/b34yw1he3wl34 ... .firm?dl=0
N2+ - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ijuyqvkxza2te ... .firm?dl=0

Note: I should probably get jetguy's temp controlled fan mod and add it as an option that can be #defined.
1.1.6H firmware is located at https://github.com/Firesped/Marlin-Rais ... ree/1.1.6H
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

fponticelli
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:09 am

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby fponticelli » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:16 pm

I really appreciate all of your hard work and I am really glad I can benefit from it :)

firesped
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:30 pm

I was in the process of compiling these, just wasn't sure if I should post them. I've been running 1.1.6H since some time last week, after the touchscreen update hit. The only issue i have run into is extreme cold will cause the printer to go into shutdown mode.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

fponticelli
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:09 am

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby fponticelli » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:38 pm

Define extreme cold, I live in Colorado :)

firesped
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:20 pm

my printer is in an outdoor workship that is not insulated. It got below freezing last night and i only had the printer in idle. the thermocouples on the hotends got too cold triggering the mintemp board error. (this happens if you wire the thermocouple backwards and try to heat the hotends.) working now tho
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

fponticelli
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:09 am

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby fponticelli » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:54 pm

Ok, mine is indoor so it will never get that cold ... ABS fumes are still a problem to solve though :(

lami3d
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:49 am

Hello,

i receive everything i was waiting for (Zlatan extruders, fans, connectors and even dial indicator from japan!) and i'm going to install these today.

I had 2 question :
- the bowden extruder is located on the upper bar but it seems to be not aligned with the 2 holes on the frame (to route the bowden tube). Just 10 cm lower of the hole but about 6 cm of misalignment, it seems the bowden tube is going to be very arched in my opinion. Is it normal and does it work well ? or Do i have to drill the frame just above the extruder ? Create a part ? or other solution ?

- Even if i'm not going to use the bowden often, i want to install and configure it to be ready in case of....
Do i have to selt 0.6V for the 2 motors ? i think yes but if someone can confirm...

I think Martin is in WE so if you can help me, i'll appreciate !
Thanks for your answers !

sylus
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:47 pm

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby sylus » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:52 am

Yes 0.6V is required to prevent heating and melting PLA into bondtech

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:50 pm

lami3d wrote:Hello,

I had 2 question :
- the bowden extruder is located on the upper bar but it seems to be not aligned with the 2 holes on the frame (to route the bowden tube). Just 10 cm lower of the hole but about 6 cm of misalignment, it seems the bowden tube is going to be very arched in my opinion. Is it normal and does it work well ? or Do i have to drill the frame just above the extruder ? Create a part ? or other solution ?

Thanks for your answers !


I drilled a new hole for bowden tube in a better place. No big deal, the cover is made off plastic.

lami3d
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:54 pm

Thanks Thruster !

GJohns
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:27 pm

Mods needed for the mini to work as Bowden?

Postby GJohns » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:18 am

Can someone tell me what I'm missing here: In the Raise3D dual extruder, looking from the front, the left stepper turns Counter-Clockwise to drive filament forward (down) while the right stepper turns Clockwise to drive forward (down).

In the BondTech upgrade kit, the main left extruder again turns Counter-Clockwise to drive filament down while the mini for the Bowden will drive down when the stepper from the right side turns Clockwise but down in this case is backward not forward.

Image

I installed the mini as per the instructions. I used option 2 which was to cut the wires and re-connect. When I went to load filament, it was driven down toward the reel instead of up and out. Here are the possibilities on why this could be:

1. The wiring is incorrect - but this does not make sense because option 1 is to reroute without cutting and it would clearly drive down based on this setup.
2. The mini that is needed is supposed to be left handed like the direct drive unit placed on top of the hot ends - but the image in the instructions and the picture above clearly show a right handed BondTech mini and I don't think there is a left hand mini available.
3 The unit is mounted upside down from what it needs to be - but there is no place to plug in a Bowden tube on the other side and the instructions clearly show it mounted upright.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7A1MEUY39HCVjY1TUtXNHg0TjA/view

Fortunately, when I moved the motor, I installed a set of quick disconnect connectors so that I quickly move the motor back to the original position it I ever want to install another dual direct drive extruder. If I knew the wiring needed to reverse direction, I could make an adapter that uses the same quick connects and alters the wiring when in the Bowden position.

Any help would be welcome
Glenn

GJohns
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mods needed for the mini to work as Bowden?

Postby GJohns » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:34 am

GJohns wrote:Can someone tell me what I'm missing here: In the Raise3D dual extruder, looking from the front, the left stepper turns Counter-Clockwise to drive filament forward (down) while the right stepper turns Clockwise to drive forward (down).

In the BondTech upgrade kit, the main left extruder again turns Counter-Clockwise to drive filament down while the mini for the Bowden will drive down when the stepper from the right side turns Clockwise but down in this case is backward not forward.

Image

I installed the mini as per the instructions. I used option 2 which was to cut the wires and re-connect. When I went to load filament, it was driven down toward the reel instead of up and out. Here are the possibilities on why this could be:

1. The wiring is incorrect - but this does not make sense because option 1 is to reroute without cutting and it would clearly drive down based on this setup.
2. The mini that is needed is supposed to be left handed like the direct drive unit placed on top of the hot ends - but the image in the instructions and the picture above clearly show a right handed BondTech mini and I don't think there is a left hand mini available.
3 The unit is mounted upside down from what it needs to be - but there is no place to plug in a Bowden tube on the other side and the instructions clearly show it mounted upright.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7A1MEUY39HCVjY1TUtXNHg0TjA/view

Fortunately, when I moved the motor, I installed a set of quick disconnect connectors so that I quickly move the motor back to the original position it I ever want to install another dual direct drive extruder. If I knew the wiring needed to reverse direction, I could make an adapter that uses the same quick connects and alters the wiring when in the Bowden position.

Any help would be welcome



So after a little research - all that is needed is to reverse the wires on 1 pole. I found that the 2 left most wires were a pole and the 2 right most were another. I made a connector that would drop inline and reverse the 2 left most wires. Feeding and retracting are now working and I'm currently printing a calibration cube. The sound of the extruder motor coming from the side rather than on top seems a little odd at first but everything is printing fine so far from the Bowden.
Glenn

budi67
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:56 pm

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby budi67 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:56 am

A question aboout the Bontech upgrade for the N2, if i buy a kit, are there some things to be modified in the firmware ?

I do not understand what wrote higher firesped

Thanks

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:16 am

budi67 wrote:A question aboout the Bontech upgrade for the N2, if i buy a kit, are there some things to be modified in the firmware ?

I do not understand what wrote higher firesped

Thanks


Just add "M92 E140" in the start g-code and you are good to go.

budi67
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:56 pm

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby budi67 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:22 am

Ok, thanks Trhuster ;)
But to what corresponds what firesped wrote ?

sylus
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:47 pm

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby sylus » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:25 am

budi67 wrote:Ok, thanks Trhuster ;)
But to what corresponds what firesped wrote ?

It 's related to implement step/mm directly into the firmware.

You have 2 possibility to set the bondtech step/mm setting:
1) use the gcode line provided by Trhuster :mod is temporary for the print slice as is ( if you remove or slice without this line the step was original)
2)you set the mod into the firmware as permanent with 3 option for each printer type (N1 N2 N2+)
1.1 2 bondtech mini
1.2 1 bondtech mini + 1 bondtech QR
1.3 Original settings (RAISE3D extruder)

lami3d
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:48 am

For the hybrid conf, i have to download 1.1.6H from firespeed but if i want to run with only the printhead extruder, is the number of extruders setting always avalaible in the touchscreen menu to select 1 extruder ? or do i have to put "M992 H0 = hybrid mode off" everytime ?
Does a firmware for hybrid version with only the printhead extruder actived as default setting exist ?

if i don't install 1.1.6H and that i want to use the 2 extruders, i have to put in the gcode :
M92 E140 for printhead extruder and 476.5 for right extruder but what is the code for this : M?? E476.5 ?

thanks for your help !

budi67
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:56 pm

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby budi67 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:22 am

sylus wrote:
budi67 wrote:Ok, thanks Trhuster ;)
But to what corresponds what firesped wrote ?

It 's related to implement step/mm directly into the firmware.

You have 2 possibility to set the bondtech step/mm setting:
1) use the gcode line provided by Trhuster :mod is temporary for the print slice as is ( if you remove or slice without this line the step was original)
2)you set the mod into the firmware as permanent with 3 option for each printer type (N1 N2 N2+)
1.1 2 bondtech mini
1.2 1 bondtech mini + 1 bondtech QR
1.3 Original settings (RAISE3D extruder)


Thanks for your answer Sylus ;) , now i understand

firesped
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:45 pm

lami3d wrote:For the hybrid conf, i have to download 1.1.6H from firespeed but if i want to run with only the printhead extruder, is the number of extruders setting always avalaible in the touchscreen menu to select 1 extruder ? or do i have to put "M992 H0 = hybrid mode off" everytime ?
Does a firmware for hybrid version with only the printhead extruder actived as default setting exist ?

if i don't install 1.1.6H and that i want to use the 2 extruders, i have to put in the gcode :
M92 E140 for printhead extruder and 476.5 for right extruder but what is the code for this : M?? E476.5 ?

thanks for your help !


if you don't have a bondtech, install 1.1.6Hoff, hybrid mode is off.
if you have a bondtech, install either 1.1.6Hdual or 1.1.6Hmini

if you have 1 drivegear and 1 QR universal, use the 1.1.6Hdual for your printer.
if you have 2 minis, use the 1.1.6Hmini for your printer.
the firmware with hybrid mode off, was provided for someone who is using the default feed system but might want access to the code.

When using the bondtech, you don't want to turn off hybrid mode, as the hybrid mode is setting the extruder step-e to the correct speed, even if you are only using one extruder to print.

M992 gcode is there so people who want to can fine tune their extruder settings for each extruder without having to recompile firmware.

M92 E140 sets the step-e for the extruder. marlin by default does not allow for different extruder speeds. to run the code through pure gcode, everytime you tool change, you would need to sent a M92 E140 or M92 E476.5. Ideamaker is not designed to handle this. S3D can do it but you need to buy S3D to use it.

You would have to go back into the gcode file and add M92 E140 after every T0 and M92 E476.5 after every T1.

The hybrid firmware just does that directly in the firmware for you instead of having to do it in the gcode file.

if you choose to use the Hybrid off firmware, and wanted to turn it on, the code at the start of the gcode file would look like

for the 5:1 gear stepper motor in the QR universal
M992 H1
M992 T0 E140
M992 T1 E476.5

for the stock motor in the mini.
M992 H1
M992 T0 E140
M992 T1 E140

the unseen benefit of the hybrid code, is since the touchscreen is sending gcode to the motion controller board, the hybrid code will make the extruders run at the correct speed during filament loading.

When the bondtech was still being prototyped for the raise3d printers, some of us with dual extruders choose to get the QR universal for our second extruder. I think Jetguy went with the mini. So we needed to come up with a way to run the 2 extruders at different step-e settings. At the time, Jetguy was the only person outside of raise3d working with the firmware. He was away at a makerfair so I think it forced a few of us to take the dive into firmware development to get our printers working. As we had commited to expensive upgrades and needed some solutions.

Socke and myself came up with the same idea at the same time to go into the firmware and add code to the tool change command (T0 and T1, gcode_T) that will set the extruder step-e to correct step-e for the selected extruder. His code just did that, while I made my code more complex allowing for it to also allow other settings to be changed. I also in the process added settings for all extruder parameters for each extruder. In the latest version of my code, I made it so the firmware could be compiled where the hybrid code does not compile into the firmware. I made a M command, M992 so settings could be changed on the printer without needing to recompile the printer. It however does not save anything. so if you reboot the printer, setting are lost. I have one last thing i need to add to my M992 command, so it will display the hybrid settings for the extruders. Then I also need to intergrade jetguy's temp controlled fan code as an option into the firmware as well.

I've also worked on and fixed the other issue that came up with the Thermal Runaway Protection code not working as intended. raise3d has been upgrading the parameters of the firmware to be better with each version.

Technically speaking, turning the hybrid code off, basically makes the firmware act like the stock 1.1.6 firmware should act. the TRP code is different in mine. It is set to run at 94 step-e. the default for the standard printer drivegear.

While I didn't go into computer programming as I had intended, I did learn C++ back in high school over 20 years ago and I was studying computer programming in college until my work forced me to stop taking classes for college.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

lami3d
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:08 am

Thank you very much Firespeed !
I think i had understand everything now :D
Great work !


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