Project Bondtech Extruder

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
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basilfawlty
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby basilfawlty » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:52 pm

Thanks Dan. That's good to know before I get started. :)
Raise3D N2+

checktest
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby checktest » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:23 pm

I went the route of untangling the cable from the cable chain. I definitely recommend that option as opposed to cutting and splicing cables, but that's just me.

GJohns
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby GJohns » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:56 am

Here is another user going the Bond Tech route. I also started getting the click, click sound along with failed prints after a few months of printing. Then I found the right extruder was more reliable so I started printing single material prints with the right side but have recently started getting some failures from that side also.

Bought the Bond Tech direct/Bowden combo. Install is delayed because I couldn't get the countersunk bolts out of the sides of the extruder - broke a tool in one and stripped out the head of the other. (due to the Lock-tight) I ended up grinding a slot into each and removing with a slot screwdriver and I'm now working on getting replacement bolts.

Here is what I have noticed so far. I didn't start to get failed prints until I had been using the device for a while. In disassembling the unit, I noticed that the extruder sprockets had worn significantly in the area contacting filament. The rest of the the sprockets' area was much sharper and has slightly longer teeth. The material appears to be brass.

So while the Bond Tech is better in several ways 1. Spring loaded 2. Drives on both sides of the filament 3. Hardened sprockets and 4. A curved contour on the sprocket that wraps around the filament - I think that simply providing the third improvement (hardened sprockets) would make the Raise3D extruded much more reliable and I probably would not have pursued the Bond Tech route.

If anyone is looking for a quick fix to the stripped filament problem, you might move the sprockets on the motor shaft a few millimeters, then if you get failures after a month or 2 of printing, flip the sprocket and get some use on the other end - eventually replace the sprockets when they've been used up.

Ultimately, I think I will be pleased with the Bond Tech - though as of this posting, I have yet to see anyone who is consistently printing reliably from the Bowden side. It would be nice to have a dual direct drive Bond Tech option for the N2+ dual.

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basilfawlty
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby basilfawlty » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:40 am

Great feedback. What is involved in removing and flipping the sprocket?
Raise3D N2+

GJohns
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby GJohns » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:17 am

basilfawlty wrote:Great feedback. What is involved in removing and flipping the sprocket?


1. Remove any filament.
2. Remove the plastic filament cover.
3 Remove the 4 bolts that hold the stepper motor and then pull the motor out the back out the back.
4 Use a 1.5 mm allen wrench to loosen the pin on the sprocket.
5 Slide the sprocket to a new position. Optionally, slide completely off and turn around and put back on in a new position.
6 Retighten the pin.
7 Repeat for 2nd motor if necessary.
8 Reassemble
Glenn

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basilfawlty
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby basilfawlty » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:24 am

Brilliant summary. Thanks.
Raise3D N2+

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:06 am

Hello,

brilliant subject and contributions !
Even if i haven't understand everything yet, i feel now concerned by some original extruder issues exactly like GJohns said.
So, as i have already improved my prints following the bed levelling mod and increasing my objet cooling, i have to continue with this bontech mod.

I just want to now if i understood well the basics (i have a N2+) :

- i have to order the kit for N2 (i have rev1) -> is the hybrid works fine without the bowden extruder or would i prefer install an other bondtech kit if i choose to only print with one noozle ? i was thinking order the hybrid and bowden to be able to get dual extrusion if necessary but i'm not going to often use the bowden one. I have also to check what part do i have to print to install this mod.

- Install it following guide instructions (be carefull to the length of wire on N2+)

- Set voltage to 0.6V (instead of 0.9V) following Thruster experience

- Set "M92 E140" at the begining of the Gcode


Am i missing something important ?

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:46 pm

lami3d wrote:Hello,

brilliant subject and contributions !
Even if i haven't understand everything yet, i feel now concerned by some original extruder issues exactly like GJohns said.
So, as i have already improved my prints following the bed levelling mod and increasing my objet cooling, i have to continue with this bontech mod.

I just want to now if i understood well the basics (i have a N2+) :

- i have to order the kit for N2 (i have rev1) -> is the hybrid works fine without the bowden extruder or would i prefer install an other bondtech kit if i choose to only print with one noozle ? i was thinking order the hybrid and bowden to be able to get dual extrusion if necessary but i'm not going to often use the bowden one. I have also to check what part do i have to print to install this mod.

- Install it following guide instructions (be carefull to the length of wire on N2+)

- Set voltage to 0.6V (instead of 0.9V) following Thruster experience

- Set "M92 E140" at the begining of the Gcode


Am i missing something important ?


You have it all right. You can use only left direct drive extruder and only use it as a single extruder setup. If you want to install bowden side you don't have to print anything, it is all included in the set when you buy it.

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:49 pm

Thank you Trhuster !

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:53 pm

I am also looking for the post in which jetguy give a link to other 35mm fans like the ones you installed on your dual conf but i don't manage to find it again.
Can you give me their reference or a link please ? Tx again

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:00 pm

lami3d wrote:I am also looking for the post in which jetguy give a link to other 35mm fans like the ones you installed on your dual conf but i don't manage to find it again.
Can you give me their reference or a link please ? Tx again


You can try this one from socke: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1704781

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:09 pm

Trhuster wrote:
lami3d wrote:I am also looking for the post in which jetguy give a link to other 35mm fans like the ones you installed on your dual conf but i don't manage to find it again.
Can you give me their reference or a link please ? Tx again


You can try this one from socke: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1704781

That's what i have on my printer :D in terms of fan ducts and it works well !
But i was talking about just the fans, i saw a post from jetguy and they looks like yours on the ninjaflex picture on the previous page.
Impossible to find again this post ( :x

Jetguy
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Jetguy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:20 pm


lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:45 pm

Thank you jetguy !

Jetguy
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Jetguy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:03 pm

Jetguy wrote:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/delta-electronics/ASB03512HB-F00/603-1722-ND/3444176


Don't forget, since the fan is 15mm deep rather than 10mm deep, you need M3 screws 5mm longer to compensate.
Stock M3 screw is 25mm long holding the 10mm thick fan.
You need M3 x 30mm for a 15mm fan.

Ace hardware stores are very good for metric M3 screws where I live, otherwise, hobby shops for radio controlled cars/boats/planes is another place in many locations.

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:27 pm

Jetguy wrote:
Jetguy wrote:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/delta-electronics/ASB03512HB-F00/603-1722-ND/3444176


Don't forget, since the fan is 15mm deep rather than 10mm deep, you need M3 screws 5mm longer to compensate.
Stock M3 screw is 25mm long holding the 10mm thick fan.
You need M3 x 30mm for a 15mm fan.

Ace hardware stores are very good for metric M3 screws where I live, otherwise, hobby shops for radio controlled cars/boats/planes is another place in many locations.


I was remembering this point and i already have these screws at home, Thanks !

But i forgot the connectors (i saw too late that the fans doesn't have and i'm not used to this...).
So i ordered JST HXP2 connectors and SXH-002T-P0.6 contacts, sold by 100 lol
It was a first for me, i hope it will fit.

And maybe Bondtech extruder is coming tomorrow :D

Jetguy
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Jetguy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:32 pm

Well, also remember or read the data sheet for the fan, the fan has a tachometer lead but we do not need or use it (the blue wire). Just be sure to check, double check, and triple check polarity of the connector and wiring before you blow up the fan or control board. Brushless fans will not withstand reverse polarity.

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:19 am

tx again for these advices !
i thought i'm going to take a picture how red and black wires are located on the connector and how it is connected now and do the same with the red and black wire of the new fans. Is this good (i think red and black means the same for the 2 fans) or do i have to measure voltage or something else to know polarity ?

fponticelli
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby fponticelli » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:28 pm

I am another one that did the mod using the official kit from Bondtech (rev 1). I printed for an entire week and I am really satisfied so far.
I used the firmware posted on this thread and it generally works out well except for the occasional error that requires a restart. I guess it is suffering from the same problem that were affecting the firmware v.1.1.3. Beside that I am really happy with the upgrade. Full disclosure, I didn't test the right extruder at all.

Jetguy
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Jetguy » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:21 pm

I'll produce a new firmware that removes that problem. I just was hoping to have a Repetier based firmware sooner. Glad it works for you, I've not changed and been using exactly what I posted all this time.


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