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Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:47 pm
by JohnSays
Since my LCD is bad and my speed in printing seems to be limited to the 8-bit motion board, I'm thinking it may be about time to scrap the R3D electronics and go 32-bit. There are now some very inexpensive 32-bit boards. Has anyone else thought about this or, better yet, done it?

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:04 pm
by Diagro
I'm also interested in doing this.

I'll buy a cheap board and see if I can get it working.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:00 am
by JohnSays
Cool

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:57 pm
by zemlin
I'll also be watching here.
I have an N2 and N2+ that I'd consider for brain transplants. They've been good machines, but I think 32 bit would be a great upgrade.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:59 pm
by FreedomRules
I went with a Duet2WiFi board. Of course it takes patients to get everything done and up and running. In the end I'm glad I did it as it was way easier to utilize mods. My current mods are.


E3D Head "REMOVED" Not as good a stock in my opinion
Duet2 Board.
Full rewire with insulated wiring for sensors.
Precision Piezo bed leveling "REMOVED" Not consistent at all. Did there under bed system. Maybe piezo's at print head would work??
BLTouch attached to custom Fan Shrouds.
Upgraded thick aluminum bed plate.
Keenovo Bed Heater
110v Heater Relay
SCHAFFNER FN9290-10-06 Filtered power input module to handle more power for heating element.
Bondtech Extruder Upgrade
Inductive Proximity Sensors for bed and endstops.


Future upgrades will be:
Heated Chamber.
Slice Engineering Print Heads
Linear rail gantry.
magnetic mount system for glass bed plates.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:25 pm
by JohnSays
Wow! Sounds like an awesome upgrade! Please tell us the specifics of the upgrade. For example:

What happens with the touch screen?
What thermal sensors are you using?
Is the insulated senor wiring something you made or a purchased item?
Can you use the existing hot end heaters? (My N2 printers use the E3D print heads with their standard cooling bodies.)
Version of software?
How about pictures of the install?

Do the Inductive Proximity Sensors for bed and endstops wiring directly into the new board? I'd love to do away with the mechanical endstops.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:46 pm
by zemlin
I have been looking at boards and also settled on the Duet 2 Wifi as looking like the best option.
It will be a while before I can dig into that though, as I have some work around the house I better get done before I start taking a printer apart.

My current plan is to use all stock hardware (I went to the dual Bondtech right off the bat) for now. I believe I can reconfigure the touch screen as a stand-alone tablet for running a web browser and then access the Duet web server from the touch screen when I'm at the printer. I also have parts and design for heating the enclosure, so I'll do that at the same time. I'll be using a stand-alone temperature controller for that, although I might see if there's the proper I/O to integrate that into the Duet controller. I also have a BL-Touch I'll throw into the mix.

I'm interested to know what kind of improvements you've seen in print speed/quality/or other tangibles.

I just did the magnetic bed on a 1/4" aluminum plate. I have another phase coming up to resolve an issue with magnet properties - I'll post some pics from that shortly.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:52 am
by FreedomRules
JohnSays wrote:Wow! Sounds like an awesome upgrade! Please tell us the specifics of the upgrade. For example:
This wiring guide will give you a breakdown of the wifi board and what it along supports. Personally if I were to do it again I'd go for the newer Duet3 board but the wifi or wired will do just as good. Plus if you had config issues on the duet2 wifi I could help. The Duet3 is completely different code wise under the skin. GUI usage is the same.
"https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Guide/2.)+Wiring+your+Duet/9" Copy url without quotes. It was messing it up because of the characters.


What happens with the touch screen?
Disabled.. I was originally going to install another or try and make stock one work but I always have a phone on me and the board has a builtin web controller that also is fully functionable from either a phone or iPad. They do make a PanelDue display for the board but its not as nice as Raise3D's panel. I personally prefer using my phone. That way I can check on it at any time from any where. Port forwarding / VPN required of course.

What thermal sensors are you using?
The board supports just about every thermal sensor under the sun as it also supports several daughter boards they make for different types not supported on the native board. I purchased a Thermocouple Daughter Board for the Native sensors in the Raise3D Print Heads. I also Had the E3D print heads along with the Heat Sink's that one of the forum members on here was making for them. I just felt I had less issues with the OEM ones. But in all honesty thats when I was trying linear advance with Marlin beta and I think it was needing way more CPU then the OEM 8 bit controller could handle and likely issues had nothing to do with the E3D.

Is the insulated sensor wiring something you made or a purchased item?
Purchased on Amazon. 22 AWG 4 Conductor Stranded Shielded Plenum Cable White CL3P Jacket 100'.

Can you use the existing hot end heaters? (My N2 printers use the E3D print heads with their standard cooling bodies.)
Yes. I believe its 24v supported but in reality if you had something else you could just do a relay and then whatever output voltage you heaters used.

Version of software? 2.05.1
I had also tried version 3 when it first came out but had some issues since its handled way different. Kinda coded more universal so the board can be used for CNC, Laser, 3D printers and whatever you can think under the sun. That was about 6 months ago and it was beta so issues were likely caused by that. I do plan on migrating to version 3. They are still keeping the 2.0 version updated.

How about pictures of the install?
I really didn't take any pictures during the install but if you have specific area's you want pictures of let me know. Basically I purchased 6 different colors of spool wire along with the shielded wire. One could probably due fine without the shielded wire just a precaution I took. If you don't just be sure to twist your wires together tight as that will do wonders on canceling noise. You can use either a vise or someone with pliers holding the 2-3 wires depending on what your wiring and a drill to tightly wind your wire.

Do the Inductive Proximity Sensors for bed and endstops wiring directly into the new board? I'd love to do away with the mechanical endstops.
Yes they wire direct in that was one of my big musts. You can see in the link below in upper right where you wire in the sensors. I'm still debating the final bed sensor. I've found some that you can actually have a dial adjustment. I've thought about getting one of those and either converting it to a web adjustable setting or just stick with a dial on the top of the printer under the lid.

https://d17kynu4zpq5hy.cloudfront.net/i ... JI6Z.large

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:53 am
by FreedomRules
Couple more images.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:51 pm
by FreedomRules
zemlin wrote:I have been looking at boards and also settled on the Duet 2 Wifi as looking like the best option.
It will be a while before I can dig into that though, as I have some work around the house I better get done before I start taking a printer apart.

My current plan is to use all stock hardware (I went to the dual Bondtech right off the bat) for now. I believe I can reconfigure the touch screen as a stand-alone tablet for running a web browser and then access the Duet web server from the touch screen when I'm at the printer. I also have parts and design for heating the enclosure, so I'll do that at the same time. I'll be using a stand-alone temperature controller for that, although I might see if there's the proper I/O to integrate that into the Duet controller. I also have a BL-Touch I'll throw into the mix.

I'm interested to know what kind of improvements you've seen in print speed/quality/or other tangibles.

I just did the magnetic bed on a 1/4" aluminum plate. I have another phase coming up to resolve an issue with magnet properties - I'll post some pics from that shortly.


In all fairness it would be hard for me to narrow down exact improvements received from just the Duet. I can say for fact I was not enjoying my 3D printer when I had the stock board even with my upgrades. I do feel the overall quality of the print is better with a 32bit controller. Pieces themselves look smoother, cleaner lines and arches. Motion control is alot smoother. I had tried implementing linear motion on the stock board. For me that just didn't work. I thought I was having feed issues but I think it just couldn't keep up. From my understanding the 8bit really hacks the motion control up to be able to keep up on complicated prints. While a 32bit or a Klipper setup with an 8 bit stock board can still really shine. Klipper is a firmware that allows one to keep an 8bit controller and something like a Raspberry Pi does all the computing and just uses the OEM 8 bit controller as a execution controller so it doesn't have to think just execute the route its given. Also all the macros and over customizability of the Duet workflow makes it where one can spend less time fiddling and more time printing. Once your up and running. Some day I plan on trying Klipper on my Duet2 board as I've heard even 32 bit boards can benefit from it.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:19 pm
by zemlin
Thanks for the info. Sounds worthwhile to me. That Duet web interface looks great.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:44 pm
by JohnSays
Thank you so much!

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:42 am
by jean-claude
FreedomRules : Bravo ! et merci.
(JohnSays, vous avez rudement bien fait de poser la question !!!)

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:12 pm
by Jetguy
Million dollar question, how did you connect the thermocouples to the DUET thermocouple board?
Did you use long thermocouples or proper thermocouple extension wiring and connectors to extend the existing thermocouples through the cable chain down to the electronics bay?
OR
Did you remote the thermocouple amp daughter board from the main duet board- not unlike the factory raise solution?
Or
Did you do it some other way.

Some info from a manufacturer https://www.pyromation.com/Products/Wire.aspx

In a nutshell, thermocouples can be excellent temp sensors, extremely accurate, self calibrating- if and only if, some key installation rules are followed. If you introduce wire junctions that are different metals to extend the thermocouple to the amp, you then move the cold junction part of the equation into a spot that could change temp over time during a print. Since a thermocouple produces a voltage based on the difference between the hot sensing junction and the cold junction, if the cold junction varies from what the internal thermocouple amp chip itself is, then you get a significant offset of real temp VS reported temp. Meaning, your hot end temp would change and no longer be accurate during a print where chamber temp rose over time.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/256/ ... 555593.pdf

This was identified as a major hurdle to solve in the previous 32 bit discussions.
https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php ... 12&p=31958

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:50 pm
by Jetguy
FWIW, after just finding out my N1 is in bad shape from loan to the local makerspace (LCD touch not working, linear bearings shot, linear rods shot) it's a candidate for a Duet2 upgrade which I also have on hand. The difference is, the N1 has a much shorter and simpler cable path, can use a direct long thermocouple without extension wiring, where as an N2 or N2 plus is just a different beast due to the size of the motion and just physical distance between the extruder head and the electronics bay area.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:15 pm
by zemlin
Been giving this some thought myself. I plan to mount the thermocouple board on the print head so I don' t need to run thermocouple wire through the machine. Also going to look at the chips on the Raise board that's up there already. If it's the same chips as the Duet board, maybe it would work for the Duet.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:24 pm
by JohnSays
Jetguy wrote:Million dollar question, how did you connect the thermocouples to the DUET thermocouple board?
Did you use long thermocouples or proper thermocouple extension wiring and connectors to extend the existing thermocouples through the cable chain down to the electronics bay?
OR
Did you remote the thermocouple amp daughter board from the main duet board- not unlike the factory raise solution?
Or
Did you do it some other way.

Some info from a manufacturer https://www.pyromation.com/Products/Wire.aspx

In a nutshell, thermocouples can be excellent temp sensors, extremely accurate, self calibrating- if and only if, some key installation rules are followed. If you introduce wire junctions that are different metals to extend the thermocouple to the amp, you then move the cold junction part of the equation into a spot that could change temp over time during a print. Since a thermocouple produces a voltage based on the difference between the hot sensing junction and the cold junction, if the cold junction varies from what the internal thermocouple amp chip itself is, then you get a significant offset of real temp VS reported temp. Meaning, your hot end temp would change and no longer be accurate during a print where chamber temp rose over time.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/256/ ... 555593.pdf

This was identified as a major hurdle to solve in the previous 32 bit discussions.
https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php ... 12&p=31958


He mentions that he used a daughter board.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:38 am
by rattlemycage
I am in the final stages of fitting a Duet 2 Wifi board and screen to an N2.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:01 am
by JohnSays
rattlemycage wrote:I am in the final stages of fitting a Duet 2 Wifi board and screen to an N2.


I'm sure we would all like to know your blow by blow steps to getting this done.

Re: Has anyone done a 32bit upgrade to the N2 series?

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:43 am
by rattlemycage
It is not a difficult conversion. The original Raise3D stepper motor plugs fit the Duet board should anyone want to keep the original cables. Two wires on each stepper motor plug require swapping over. There are four wires (all black) I swapped the orientation of the first two. All the cables were replaced from the board to the extrude motors and hot end. The ribbon cable is a necessity to replace, but the other cables can be used again. My decision to replace them stems from having all black cables does not bode well for fault finding in the future. Addition cables were fed to facilitate an auto levelling device later in the build. A plastic box was constructed to allow joining of wires where the original circuit board was for the hot ends. The bed temperature sensor was a three wire affair, whichever two wires I used, the temperature would not register on the Duet2 board, additionally the original hot end sensors would also not register on the Duet2. an additional Duet2 daughter board was used with PT100 for the hot ends and a PT1000 that was thermally glued to the underside of the heated bed. The original sensor was no longer used. I used a Paneldue 7inch touchscreen, this fits in the original Raise position although it is 90 degrees out.