V2 extruder skipping

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Zettlinger
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Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

V2 extruder skipping

Postby Zettlinger » Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:46 pm

After a few failed and one good print (where i did hear the clicking sound but didnt hit me yet what it was) i have had trouble getting anything printed without hearing the clicking from layer 2 and up.

Setting standard speed print : 0,25 mm , flowrate is at 88 (standard for V2)

I tried setting Z closer and farther , temp to 210 , 215 etc but it kept skipping until i set the feedrate to 90 !

Anyone got a hint on why it suddenly started skipping more ?
I did have trouble with the pla not sticking to the bed and had to restart some prints a few times due to curled up (warped) or knocked over prints

(right nozzle is set high enough to not hit anything, only printing from left one)

I use a raft and the model has a little bit of support but it started clicking from layer 2 and up


Thanks in advance for any tips you might have

*edit printing white raise3d pla , flow 88 , feedrate 90, temp 205, heatbed 50 , setting speed print ( 0,25mm layers )

dsiegfried
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Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby dsiegfried » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:37 am

I print as high as 230. How high did you go?

Zettlinger
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:19 pm

i didnt go beyond 220-225 or so yet, next print i will try 225

You use 230 on the raise3d pla ? (derek mentioned to try to go up to 225 and bed upto 70 max. Inreasing at 5C per try )

MikeWall
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Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby MikeWall » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:11 pm

Are you using the V2 templates in the latest Ideamaker, 2.1.4?
N2 KS-Raise3d'er

Zettlinger
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:38 pm

Yes i use the V2 templates now printing with bed at 60 and extruder at 215, slowly raising the temp on hotend, then bed etc and seeing when i get more stick , also added a little on retraction with the higher temps ( 1.5mm in stead of 1 )

printing a scaled down model of my kylo ren belt buckle now (full size takes too long, not leaving it on overnight again for a while :) )

Screenshot 2016-04-10 19.37.13.png

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John@Raise3D
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Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby John@Raise3D » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:23 am

When motor skipping, it means the motor does not have enough torque to push the filament through.
2 ways to resolve.
1: reduce the resistance--higher nozzle temperature to lower the viscosity of the extruding filament and hence lower back pressure and lower resistance
2: increase the motor torque: lower the stepper driver voltage to increase torque. Slow down the print is also helpful.

Zettlinger
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Zettlinger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:30 am

What fixed all my problems (as far as i can see now) is:

Raise extruder temp to 215
Raise Bed temp to 60
Set first layer height down to 0.20 mm
Lower first layer speed down to 8 mm/s

After the first layer i print 70+ on everything and 150 movement without problems extruding, havent seen quality yet though on this print
The 0,10 mm print i did earlier at standard HQ speed setting, scaled to 50% came out very nice also without raft etc

The print that just finished was printed at .25 with as many shortcuts i could think of to finish it before bed (3.30 AM here now)
No raft, brim etc it did use support and no warping orlifting at all as far as i see now.

Will post some pics later (prob tomorrow err later today ... )

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John@Raise3D
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Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby John@Raise3D » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:48 am

Extruder temp could be most helpful in this list. Glad it is working now. Looking forward to your pics.

Andy Cohen
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Andy Cohen » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:15 am

So Zettlinger has V2????
If so I am wondering why not do the typical extrusion multiplier calibration?
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1163

firesped
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Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby firesped » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:13 am

looking back at his post, it looks like he got a N2+ last week with the V2 already installed. however it looks like the heater was not secured down.

with the V2 coming out, I think we are going to need a detailed instructions on how to remove the heater and thermocouple from the V1 and then install it into the V2.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

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John@Raise3D
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Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby John@Raise3D » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:49 am

We will release an instruction in a few days.

Zettlinger
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Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Zettlinger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:24 am

Andy Cohen wrote:So Zettlinger has V2????
If so I am wondering why not do the typical extrusion multiplier calibration?
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1163



Hi Andy,

I havent done the cubes at diff extrusion rates yet (standard for V2 it is set at 0,88 in stead of 0,94 with the V1 )

Did make a whole set of other test (that i didnt manage to finish due to stuff being knocked over) So started to print stuff with raft and larger footprint (the kylo ren belt buckle i redesigned) . After the little incident with the head being covered with plastic i had to remove it to clean and then set it back.

Must have set it back and leveled the nozzles correctly again then , at advice of Derek and others here, raised the temp of the extruder. Went up to 220 but still had some problems. Went back to 205 and raised the bed temp 5 degrees at a time and slowly went up with the extruder temp again.

Sweet spot seems to be around 215 for extruder and 60 on the bed (for white Raise3D PLA) (might try dialing down a few degrees

Last night i only had 4.5 hrs so played with speed / infill etc till i got around that time) Ended up with printing it at 70mm/s on 0,25 layers and to be honest i am suprised at how well it came out. (first layer at a slow 8mm/s)

Will put the pics in the gallery, will take a few posts :) max 5 pics per post it seems....


Only problem i see is where the support layers were against the model it left pieces on the bottom and not smooth at all (logic since it was on a 25% density support structure), layers are pretty good knowing it was on a .25 setting (printing a .10 version now will take 13 hrs or so) The one i printed was in less then 5 hrs for the same thing

Andy Cohen
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Andy Cohen » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:03 am

John@Raise3D wrote:When motor skipping, it means the motor does not have enough torque to push the filament through.
2 ways to resolve.
1: reduce the resistance--higher nozzle temperature to lower the viscosity of the extruding filament and hence lower back pressure and lower resistance
2: increase the motor torque: lower the stepper driver voltage to increase torque. Slow down the print is also helpful.

There's a 3rd.
As I have posted before my V1/N2 is sensitive to backwash. That is, I get stepper stutter because as it is skipping steps and it is skipping steps because the stuff won't extrude out the nozzle, and it won't extrude out the nozzle because it is coming out too fast and there's nowhere for it to go. How do i know this is the problem? I cut WAY back on infill percentage and/or tell S3D that the extrusion width is thicker... the later truncates the toolpath so there's less extruded into a tight space. The result is no more stepper stutter.
So... the third thing to try assuming you are using IM, cut way back on the infill percentage and possibly the number of shells as well. See if it still does the stutter.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:22 am

Zettlinger wrote:
Andy Cohen wrote:So Zettlinger has V2????
If so I am wondering why not do the typical extrusion multiplier calibration?
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1163



Hi Andy,

I havent done the cubes at diff extrusion rates yet (standard for V2 it is set at 0,88 in stead of 0,94 with the V1 )

Did make a whole set of other test (that i didnt manage to finish due to stuff being knocked over) So started to print stuff with raft and larger footprint (the kylo ren belt buckle i redesigned) . After the little incident with the head being covered with plastic i had to remove it to clean and then set it back.

Must have set it back and leveled the nozzles correctly again then , at advice of Derek and others here, raised the temp of the extruder. Went up to 220 but still had some problems. Went back to 205 and raised the bed temp 5 degrees at a time and slowly went up with the extruder temp again.

Sweet spot seems to be around 215 for extruder and 60 on the bed (for white Raise3D PLA) (might try dialing down a few degrees

Last night i only had 4.5 hrs so played with speed / infill etc till i got around that time) Ended up with printing it at 70mm/s on 0,25 layers and to be honest i am suprised at how well it came out. (first layer at a slow 8mm/s)

Will put the pics in the gallery, will take a few posts :) max 5 pics per post it seems....


Only problem i see is where the support layers were against the model it left pieces on the bottom and not smooth at all (logic since it was on a 25% density support structure), layers are pretty good knowing it was on a .25 setting (printing a .10 version now will take 13 hrs or so) The one i printed was in less then 5 hrs for the same thing



Hi Zettlinger,

Would you like to share the .stl and .gcode file with us? Please shot a mail to support@raise3d.com. We can check and test the support layers problems for you.

pit516
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby pit516 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:52 pm

hello
any news??
my raise N2 plus extruder motor skip too... :/

Zettlinger
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby Zettlinger » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:56 am

Hi Pit516,

Now that the machine has been setup (i had to adjust the leveling) it works perfectly with the raise3d filament printing at 220 degrees
I did notice that after a while the guidetube was getting roughed up and i took one with a bigger ID (3mm) and still 4mm OD

I also noticed some of my rolls of filament will get stuck on the holder and cause some extra friction. Printing a new one with a rounded end might help too

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walshlg
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: V2 extruder skipping

Postby walshlg » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:08 pm

I think that the end of the teflon guide tube seems to shrink and pinch over time, I trim them every few months and it seems to help.


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