XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

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ssommer79
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XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:35 am

Hello

I printed yesterday a big flat object which was centered in the middle of the build plate. In the beginning all was fine. But during around 20 minutes printing with ABS, the printer begin to make noises / cracks while driving through the XY middle of the plate (around 150x150). I've stopped the print, checked all screws (according to the pdf), restart the print: again the same. I noticed that as soon the XY rods gets hot, the noise starts in the middle. It seems, that the pressure on the rods from the extruder / hotend seems to be that high (and i use currently only 1 Extruder) that the rod is sagging

Anyone else noticed that Problem? I use Hotend V2, printed with ABS

Thank you for advice!
Regards, Sascha
Last edited by ssommer79 on Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Linearshaft makes noises

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:01 am

Would you like to share a video of the noise you heard to our support system?
We can set one-to-one help there.

ssommer79
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:05 am

Hi Vicky
Thank you for quick answer
I will do this evening a video from the noise and will post it here
Regards, Sascha

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walshlg
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby walshlg » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:25 pm

check on binding by moving the print head around by hand after heating things up. You may just need to re-set alignment.

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Billucas
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby Billucas » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:53 pm

Yes I have this similar problem. The lube is not the cause for me. The rods are perpendiculars and well aligned, no problem.
The sound is abnormal, and if you were beside me, you would say the same. It is not only making noise, but
the printer extruders head is vibrating.
After five months of printing, this is a new problem. It seems to be inside the central box. There is two linear bearings
inside, maybe a little ball bearing is having problem? Could it be possible than a ball is broken inside the bearing? It's bizarre because the extruders is moving freely by hand, with no sound or problem. But it appears only when the printer go angularly, it's really rough.
I read that a guy was having a sound problem too. He tightened the belts and the noise is gone.

ssommer79
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:11 pm

I made now a video - the problem is still there :-/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq3S2nzf3lo

It is very frustrating, because it seems to have also impact on the heatbed. I measured the distance of the extruder to the heated-bed. Without glass and without the permanent print plate. I have aligned the heated-bed (the distance between the heating surface and the Z-axis plate i've measured). From bottom left to top Right, the differences are enormous. Up to 1 mm difference from the highest to the lowest point!! Also, when measuring from left to Right: the distances goes up and down. And I have the feeling that the noise and the distance problem are connected together.

The adhesion is therefore not on all parts on the plate the same. While on the left side the Brim looks good, on the right side it warps and you can even see the brim lines itself.

Any ideas?

By the way: The sounds are the same even if the gauge is not mounted to meausure

ssommer79
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:56 pm

I did now another test. I leveled the bed without my other aluminum plate with is placed normally on top of the heat-bed. I leveled the heat-bed with the gauge, that the extruder is +/- exactly the whole bed (+/- 0.1mm).

The result you see on the picture below: The measurement is now ok - but the heat-bed is slightly bent. When i now I put my aluminium plate on it, the distances will not fit anymore the extruder distance. Since the plate will not bend analog of the heated Bed.

Are the rods the problem? Why?
Attachments
20161227_214428.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:00 am

If with the origin glass build plate installed, can it get the completely leveled result on glass surface?

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walshlg
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby walshlg » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:42 pm

I had to do the bed modification to get a reliable leveling. The clicking noise sounds like either a stepper or a belt slipping.

ssommer79
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:46 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:If with the origin glass build plate installed, can it get the completely leveled result on glass surface?


Not important what kind of surface you installed: The results is the same.

I try to visualize it:
Version 1: I adjust the screws that they have all the same distance from the Heatbed to the Z-Bed. On my graphic this is exactly 12mm. If i measure now the distances between the nozzle and the heatbed, there are big differences. It was not possible to level the nozzle with the heatbed without adjusting the screws.

BUT:

If i adjust the screws, Version 2 takes places: You can level the nozzle, that the distance between the nozzle and heatbed is ok - but the heatbed is then bent. If you place now a planar surface on the heatbed, you become a flat surface again: And again at the same result than Version 1 because the surface glas will not bent

walshlg wrote:I had to do the bed modification to get a reliable leveling

What kind of modification you've done?

Regards, Sascha
Attachments
20161227_214428.jpg
20161227_214428_2.jpg

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walshlg
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby walshlg » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:37 pm

There are numerous threads about bed modification on the forum. Basicly you get long countersink/ taper head screws to replace the existing bed screws and insert into the heat plate, beneath the heat plate you insert the screws through compression screws and then through the bed support and tighten with wing nuts or gnurled nuts. My main tip - if you are using all 9 points for leveling then make the center spring twice the spring constant - this helps offset the compression of the side screws.

ssommer79
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:45 am

walshlg wrote:There are numerous threads about bed modification on the forum. Basicly you get long countersink/ taper head screws to replace the existing bed screws and insert into the heat plate, beneath the heat plate you insert the screws through compression screws and then through the bed support and tighten with wing nuts or gnurled nuts. My main tip - if you are using all 9 points for leveling then make the center spring twice the spring constant - this helps offset the compression of the side screws.


When i bought the printer, this bed-modification was already done
Attachments
20161227_231026.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:43 am

Have you ever checked your X & Y couplings? Is there any abnormal?

Have you tried hand move the printer head when power off? Is there any abnormal sound from printer head?

Does such abnormal sound happen at the beginning of you receiving the new printer? Have you ever completed a model yet? Or after you found such sound, the printer cannot printing any more?

ssommer79
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Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:51 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Have you ever checked your X & Y couplings? Is there any abnormal?


I checked only the Raise3D "X and Y axis check list.pdf" which i've found in this forum linked (for the screws). Is there any other list?

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Have you tried hand move the printer head when power off? Is there any abnormal sound from printer head?


Yes, the same sound you can hear when you move the printer-head by hand. You can even feel the abnormal vibration in the head during moving it

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Does such abnormal sound happen at the beginning of you receiving the new printer? Have you ever completed a model yet? Or after you found such sound, the printer cannot printing any more?


At the beginning the abnormal sound was not that loud. I printed also a few models. Because of the adhesion problem with the non plannar surface, i only printed smaller object in the middle of the printer. I changed the print-plate (glas) with another one (6mm Alu with Filaprint permanent print plate) and also a little bit bigger models sticks better. But with bigger models i had still problems. The BRIM and the model in the middle was good - but outside not.

Now the sound gets louder and louder and i stopped printing since a week. In total i printed maybe 150 - 200 hours

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:52 pm

Here are where X & Y couplings are. Please check both. Whether there is any loose connection or abnormal on coupling itself.
X.png
X1.png

Y.png
Y1.jpg

ssommer79
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Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:58 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Here are where X & Y couplings are. Please check both. Whether there is any loose connection or abnormal on coupling itself.


I tried with my Hand to "move" these parts. But they are fixed and wobble not even a Millimeter. They seems to be good.

I now done another film of the rods. They really are not straight. Please take a look on the video attached (in the highest quality). For me that looks like the problem i noticed. The rods are bent / not straight.

https://youtu.be/ObRhgtURDgg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:37 am

I saw there you said that you cannot print big model.
Is there any picture of failure can be share here?

ssommer79
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby ssommer79 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:06 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:I saw there you said that you cannot print big model.
Is there any picture of failure can be share here?


Unfortunately i have not that much photos of failed prints. But i found one of my first "big prints" in the beginning and a smaller object which was printed more or less in the middle of the build plate

On the older one (with the over-extrusion) you can see good that the nozzle distance is different - the lines on the bottom you can see while the ones in middle melt into each other. As bigger the model, as bigger are the nozzle differences during printing. If you have +/- 0.5mm difference from the highest to the lowest point, you can not print

It gets more and more frustrating. I paid 3'200 Dollar for a machine which seems not to work as expected and is at the moment just decorations. You could provide me some technical specifications of what kind of rods i need and how i can change them myself.

Thank you for your assistance
Attachments
20161029_212002.jpg
20161029_212003.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:35 am

ssommer79 wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Here are where X & Y couplings are. Please check both. Whether there is any loose connection or abnormal on coupling itself.


I tried with my Hand to "move" these parts. But they are fixed and wobble not even a Millimeter. They seems to be good.

I now done another film of the rods. They really are not straight. Please take a look on the video attached (in the highest quality). For me that looks like the problem i noticed. The rods are bent / not straight.

https://youtu.be/ObRhgtURDgg


I just check this video.

Seems the strange noise always happens from left to right or right to left. And in the video, you only move print head manually from back and forth.
Would you like to share a video of hand moving print head to left and right with power off?
Thanks!

Chrigi78
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: XY rods makes noises (at the center of the buildplate)

Postby Chrigi78 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:08 am

Dear Vicky@Raise3D

if you check the Video you can see the steel wave have a exenter and is not in line
if you check the Video you can see on second bearing block he move up and down and left and right

so final question can we order no steal wave for a N2 Printer ?


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