Ideamaker on a delta

Discussions about ideaMaker and other printing software.
Tacblades
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Tacblades » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:30 pm

I really want to use ideamaker on all my printers, and I have an anycubic kossel delta on the way.

Can I set it up to work with this, is it just the 0,0 centre of the bed and the start gcode that I can fix

Or is there something fundamental I the gcode that is different for deltas?

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:38 pm

No, the gcode is basically the same but yes a center 0 coordinate system.
I could not find and easy way to properly set that up in ideamaker.
I found on the gcode tab of the profile global offsets, so in theory you can set that to 1/2 the build dimension for XY and get a center 0 coordinate system. All bets are off if that works and you still have the slicer thinking you have a square bed area. That only matters for bounding meaning warning you when you place something too big or too near the edge, it will slice it but your printer physically may crash trying to print that gcode.

Tacblades
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Tacblades » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:41 pm

I will be working on this over Christmas even if I have to add gcode post processors to sort it out.

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:48 pm

Again, I have no idea if this works, crashes your printer, rams the head into the non-printing area, but this is where I would start my baseline.
From a pure logic standpoint, the code generally is near identical for a delta except for the origin. Some people with auto leveling and probing may need additional starting and ending commands in the gcode section, but again, for the most part, I think this is where I would try if I really wanted to do this.
Ideamaker center0 printer settings.jpg


Now updated to reflect the required negative offset.
Ideamaker center0 offset.jpg
Last edited by Jetguy on Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tacblades
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Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Tacblades » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:53 pm

Thanks will have a look

Jetguy
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Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:54 pm

Here is start and end gcode for a delta (you cannot home XYZ independently)
Reason I highlight that statement is you make the template in the slicer from an existing printer. When doing so, the Standard Raise 3D start and end code would be in the profile and on a Cartesian printer, that code contains G28, bit with axis defined meaning only that axis would home for that G28. Well on a Delta, the firmware may mask that and consider all G28 to be all axis regardless of modifiers, but no sense in temping fate.

Ideamaker center0 printer settingsendgcode.jpg

Ideamaker center0 printer settingsstartgcode.jpg

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:02 pm

Aaaah!!!
Nevermind, very bad!!! This did not offset and produce gcode with true center 0.
The way you can tell is reading the gcode produced.
sample:
973 Y122.115 E12.2480
G1 X109.478 Y121.515 E12.2741
G1 X110.058 Y120.972 E12.3005
G1 X110.648 Y120.519 E12.3253
G1 X111.296 Y120.108 E12.3508
G1 X111.994 Y119.767 E12.3766
G1 X112.712 Y119.498 E12.4021
G1 X112.900 Y119.449 E12.4086
G1 X112.900 Y96.576 E13.1694
G1 X112.939 Y95.963 E13.1898
G1 X113.081 Y95.177 E13.2164
G1 X113.319 Y94.411 E13.2430
G1 X113.650 Y93.674 E13.2699
G1 X114.068 Y92.991 E13.2965
G1 X114.548 Y92.378 E13.3224
G0 F9000 X114.849 Y92.643
G1 F1800 X115.373 Y92.114 E13.3472
G1 X115.974 Y91.640 E13.3727
G1 X116.628 Y91.250 E13.3980
G1 X117.304 Y90.949 E13.4226
G1 X118.004 Y90.730 E13.4470
G1 X118.752 Y90.589 E13.4723
G1 X119.458 Y90.552 E13.4958
G1 X185.587 Y90.552 E15.6953
G1 X186.247 Y90.589 E15.7173
G1 X186.991 Y90.730 E15.7425
G1 X187.690 Y90.947 E15.7668
G1 X188.379 Y91.254 E15.7919
G1 X189.028 Y91.647 E15.8171
G1 X189.611 Y92.106 E15.8418
G1 X190.138 Y92.630 E15.8665
G1 X190.609 Y93.231 E15.8919
G1 X190.996 Y93.875 E15.9169
G1 X191.301 Y94.555 E15.9417
G1 X191.518 Y95.255 E15.9661

The telltale is that not a single line has a negative X or Y value. If center is 0 and the object is centered on 0, then some movement must be on both postive and negative values from 0. This will most definitely crash a delta if you try this.
Last edited by Jetguy on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:05 pm

Again, sorry, I honestly did try to see if I could do this. I also know enough to be dangerous and know what I should be seeing in produced gcode. Feel free to play and experiment and maybe I missed some setting somewhere and this does work, but I suggest you post or link your gcode before actually trying to print. I know just looking at this code, and X value of 191 from center- that had better be a huge delta printer with a 400+ mm bed. Otherwise, likely to crash or at least go out of mechanical range.

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:14 pm

OK, update, did get it to work but you set the offsets to negative values.
Ideamaker center0 offset.jpg

Then I got proper negative and positive value based gcode.
Examples showing both positive and negative values with center 0
G1 X44.452 Y-22.668 E3.9129
G1 X44.088 Y-21.951 E3.9397
G1 X43.654 Y-21.284 E3.9661
G1 X43.166 Y-20.681 E3.9919
G1 X42.608 Y-20.113 E4.0184
G1 X41.977 Y-19.601 E4.0454
G1 X41.314 Y-19.169 E4.0717
G1 X40.615 Y-18.813 E4.0978
G1 X39.881 Y-18.526 E4.1241
G1 X39.599 Y-18.449 E4.1338
G1 X39.598 Y50.349 E6.4220
G1 X39.559 Y51.054 E6.4455
G1 X39.407 Y51.846 E6.4723
G1 X39.178 Y52.581 E6.4979
G1 X38.857 Y53.307 E6.5243
G1 X38.434 Y54.013 E6.5517

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:17 pm

Note when you preview this gcode, it will sit the object on what the preview window thinks is a corner 0 based system
So preview will show you something, just not centered- but it is centered on the 0 coordinate for your delta.
This was a simple enclosure just sliced quickly using the profile.
Ideamaker center0 preview.jpg

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:25 pm

Again, just some tips on this.
You have some choices on making the bed size values in the printer profile. Since a delta has a round area and Cartesian is square and right now Ideamaker does not natively support Delta- not in that things like preview, bed area, printable area are going to be correct. Example, say you have a 300mm circular build area. If you make XY 300mm in Ideamaker, then it shows a square of 300x300. That said, your printer cannot hit area in the corners. So it's up to you the person slicing the gcode and arranging parts on the bed to ensure you know the "safe area" where the STL can extend into and not crash your printer. The alternative is, make the bed area in Ideamaker the max possible corner dimension you get from a circle that has a square in it, and then enter that. This means you would limit yourself and not be able to use all the printable area but Ideamaker would correctly warn you when you exceeded the area and not produce gcode capable of wrecking your printer.

But, based on what I just tested and yes, it was not actually sent to a Delta printer, at least on my basic checks, I think this does work to slice.

Tacblades
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Tacblades » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:24 pm

So I was playing around, and ended up at the same place as you,
I worked out the negative offsets
produced gcode and compared the cgode with a slicer that works for a delta.
and the values are looking ok.

With the start and end gcode in theory this is all good.

Now if I load the ideamaker gcode into a gcode previewer from a tool that has a delta profile loaded, it all looks perfect so I think that will work.

I was thinking of having a second object on the buildplate in idemaker that is not printed as like a safe zone outline circle (or quarter) so I know then if the model is in the printable area. This could be a very thin line like 0.1mm width, then ensure the thin line threshold is above then it wont be printed.

Tacblades
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Tacblades » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:32 pm

It seems like if in the visuals of ideamaker if it could have the option to move the visual origin to the middle,
then it would work for delta printers well. ?

A round build plate would be nice in the visuals but its not really necessary.

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Jetguy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:02 am

Just copying to this thread for reference until Ideamaker natively supports a Delta round build area.
The known issue is, since the bed build area is currently a square rather than a circle, the automatic bounding (part is too big to fit or scale to max size) functions won't work correctly for slicing and could make gcode that exceeds the printers physical limits.
It's currently up to the user to either correctly size the square build area to fit inside the round logical build area or again, just know the corners of a square sized the same as the diameter of the circle is non printable.

Again, until Ideamaker natively supports a circular build area (common to Deltas) the user has to make a decision when deciding the values to setup the machine profile in ideamaker.

Delta bed area.jpg


Here is the math to find the smaller square dimensions if that is your choice.
Delta area 2.jpg

Tacblades
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Tacblades » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:37 am

I put a post in features ideas area for moving the origin but it looks like it's been deleted :(

firesped
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Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby firesped » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:06 pm

I did some work on getting a print to be centered on the N2 to print a leveling circle. because the center of the bed is not the center of the print area. I think I achieved this by moving the object.

on a delta, could you oversize the print area to achieve the same result? by extending out the print area to twice the size, would it not make the center, be the center?
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

Tacblades
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Ideamaker on a delta

Postby Tacblades » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:30 pm

Interesting idea but the 0, 0 is always bottom left corner, what we need is a 0,0 to be in the middle of the bed.


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