Infill Cohesion

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Krunder
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Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Sun May 01, 2022 7:32 am

Hi.

I have a problem with cohesion of the infill. I print light parts with a 0.25mm nozzle and 2% cubic infill. Sometimes the infill doesn't bind together.

The first pass makes an unbroken line, but when the second direction passes the first, it jumps it and doesn't bind. I use linear advance to fix this problem, but it is not always possible.

I tried to use the infill overlap (Set default to 15% on the infill tab) but I don't think it applies to the infill itself, only from infill to shell.

Is there a fix for my problem?

Thanks Krunder

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue May 03, 2022 5:43 pm

Connect Infill Endpoints may help.

Krunder
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Tue May 03, 2022 6:04 pm

Hi Vicky.

That is not qiute what I am looking for. Connect infill lines ad to much weight by adding ½ shell.
Am I right that the infill overlap function only works between infill and shell? And not from infill to infill?

Thanks Krunder

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed May 04, 2022 1:52 am

The concept of Infil Overlap is the overlapping ratio between Infill and other structures, such as Shells, Solid Shells.
Attached an example of Cubic infill. Can you explain more details of the COHESION you are looking for?
Image_20220503184927.png

Krunder
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Wed May 04, 2022 4:16 pm

I mean that the infill dosent bond to itself.
Does the picture make sense?
Attachments
IMG_20220504_181146641.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu May 05, 2022 2:21 am

All the infill extrusion lines in your picture seem are all single extrusion line.
If Single Line is not solid enough, you can consider increase Infill Extrusion With Percentage.
Image_20220504192058.png

Krunder
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Thu May 05, 2022 4:43 pm

Thanks for you answer.

Increasing line width, also makes the infill further apart, and I get problems with warping. Changing the infill from 2-3% it adds to much weight on my rc plane. Maybe if I lower the layer height it will do the same thing.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri May 06, 2022 10:39 pm

What about printing with lower speed?
If the print comes with higher layer height but lower infill densite, it may not be solid enough.

Krunder
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Sat May 07, 2022 6:59 am

Yes, speed may also help, but I think the biggest factor is line width. I print infill with 0.25mm line width, and the rest with 0.3mm.
I do that to get the infill pattern closer, that way I can go from 3-2% infill. On small planes it doesn't make a big different, but on the bigger ones it is about 500g.

Maybe if I up the infill flowrate, and keep the other settings, I can print with 2,5% infill and get a compromise.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue May 10, 2022 4:41 am

If it is going to be printed out with lower extrusion width as well as lower infill density, it wont be solide enough.

Krunder
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:59 am

Today I was browsing through the group and layer list. I spotted a feature called "Shell Direction List". This gives the possibility to select CW and CCW print direction of the shells.

Would it be possible to make a similar feature to reverse print direction of infill layers?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:27 am

From my understanding, you are looking for adjusting the direction of infills to improve the successful rate for Single Extrusion Infill. It is not what Shell Direction List trying to solution. Shell Direction will change CW and CCW print direction to improve the Shell print quality but not Infill. Infill and Shell are two different struction, they have different algorithm.
If you can provide any specific cases to show Reverse Print Direction can support, I can share your files with our developing team. But from the picture you have shared before, the infill is pretty thin, print direction may not bring a different result, especially when the area of the Infill is an irregular shape.

Krunder
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:31 am

Thanks for your answer :)

You got it right. I guess the right term would be to reverse every second infill layer.

The crossing infill structure holds the infill back, and it makes a weak connection on the other side.

I made a drawing of some layers, sideview.
First layers printed from one direction. Then printed in reverse direction.
Blue side strong - Red side weak.
Attachments
Infill.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:57 pm

What about increasing the extrrusion amount at the starting points to build a more solid binding?'
Screenshot_20220803130015.png

Krunder
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:34 pm

Didnt you say that the infill is printed in one unbroken line? Then pressure advance do no difference - I did try it :)

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:03 pm

What filament you are currently using to print? Would you like to share your .gcode and .idea files with us to test?
There's a chance that the extrusion amount is not set properly. If it always breaks at the start, the M572 value may be too small for the extruder which one is printing Infill. If it always breaks at the end, the M572 may be too big or you may consider increase the Flowrate for Infill.

Krunder
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Joined: Thu May 23, 2019 3:25 pm

Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Krunder » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:59 am

I use 3DE PLA Max - it prints like Polymaker Polymax. I am pushing the limits, and not many Pla filaments can handle this. The planes I build gets bigger and bigger, and the print time on some parts are ~150hrs, so slow printing or layer heights on less than 0.1mm are not desirable.

Is may seem very weak to have 1 0.3mm shell and 2% infill, and it is, if the infill doesn't bind. Normally I can make adjustments so the infill fells ok, but it is very sensitive, and can vary from roll to roll, or color to color. Therefore it would be a big help if the print order of the infill could be reversed on every second layer, and this should also be use full in other situations.

I added some files and pictures for you.

Thanks Krunder
Attachments
PLA_030_test.bin
(23.39 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
Test.idea
(23.85 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
Kruiser2.jpg
Kruiser.jpg
20mm_Calibration_Box.gcode
(254.16 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Infill Cohesion

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:17 pm

The thin infills are hard to bind. Travel path and temperature may affect the result but it is very hard to give out some perfect solution.
You may also can test out the performance among different filaments and compare the result.


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