Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

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tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:19 pm

Title: Top Solid Fill Flowrate not changing
Description: Changes to the Top Solid Fill Flowrate in Infill 'Top and Down Solid Part' section
Version: 3.3.0.2343
Language: English
Operation System: Windows 7 Pro
GPU: NA
32bit or 64bit: 64bit
Screen Resolution: 1920x1200
Attachments: GCode generated with value at 100% and another with value at 120%.
How to trigger the bug: Set a value for top flowrate and export GCode. Change setting and export GCode. Compare files. They are identical except for the data section.
Expected Result: I expected the GCode to change for the top levels of the part to reflect the new flowrate
Real Result: The GCode does not change. Top layer infill is underextruded.

I ran into this problem using an Ender 3 printer running TH3D firmware. I changed the nozzle from 0.4mm (which was working very well, making good parts using IdeaMaker) to 1.0mm. After adjusting temperature and then flowrate for bottom layers, infill, and outer shells I got good results except for the top layers. The top layers were definitely underextruded. I adjusted the Top Solid Fill Flowrate from 100% up to 120% with no effect. All of the parts printed were identical. I then looked at the GCode and found the files to be identical so it seems the changes to this value are not being reflected in the GCode IdeaMaker is generating.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Attachments
Top layer underextruded.jpg
XYZ_20mm_Calibration_Cube.zip
(73.72 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:28 am

Whether you have tried not using 100% infill density for your model?

tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:51 am

Hi Vicky,

You are so good at this.

So I generated GCode for the XYZ cal cube at 90% and 99% fill at both 100% and 120% Top Solid Fill Flowrates. There are huge differences between the files so the Top Solid Fill flowrate is definitely working there.

However, for the parts I want to print I really need them to be solid all the way through.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this setting. Should it adjust the top flow for a solid part as well or is it just for partially filled parts?

Thanks,

Tony.

tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:34 pm

I did more testing today hoping to find a workaround for this problem. I printed a simple shape 20mm x 40mm x 5mm using a 1.0 mm nozzle and 0.5mm layers. So there are 10 layers in all. I then set the fill to 50% and the number of top and bottom layers to 5. This gave me control over the top flow rate and a solid part.

I was able to get the top flow exactly as I wanted it. However I seem to have lost control of the bottom layers. The bottom layers are slightly overextruded.

The top five layers of the part measure as 20.04 mm x 39.91 mm. The bottom five layers measure as 20.43 mm x 40.26 mm. All of the parts are 4.98 mm to 5.02 mm high.

The best setting for the top layer was 106% flow rate in the Top and Down Solid Part section. I tried 92% down to 78% for the bottom solid fill flowrate with no measurable difference in the printed part. However there is a large difference in the gcode files generated so I don't know if this is a related issue.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks,

Tony.
Attachments
Test cube.zip
(65.67 KiB) Downloaded 18 times

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:18 pm

We have checked your gcode. The only difference between two files is Bottom Solid Fill Flowrate.
1.png
1.png (7.91 KiB) Viewed 546 times


The value of first layer for two files are the same because they are sliced with the same First Layer Flowrate.
But value changes from the second layer.

tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:32 am

Hi Vicky,

Yes, in the last files I sent I changed only the bottom flowrate to try to reduce over-extrusion on the bottom layers. The actual printed parts look the same for both settings even though the GCode is different. This was after changing the fill to 50% from 100% which stopped the top layer underextrusion issue.

My earlier examples changed only the top flowrate to try to fix underextrusion on the top layers.

Today I tried another method. I created a new filament with 92% flowrate (which previously gave perfect bottom layers). I used 100% for the top flow rate which gave a very nice top layer. However the bottom layers are still overextruded.

I find this puzzling as I don't seem to have complete control over the settings in some areas.

Thanks for your help,

Tony.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:42 am

The current ideaMaker consider 100% infill layers as solid fill layers. We can consider to take this judgement out from ideaMaker.

tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:44 am

Hi Vicky,

Thank you for being so patient with me. I thought a 100% infill layer was the same thing as a 'solid fill layer'. From your last response perhaps that is not the case?

As I said earlier I used your suggestion to change infill density from 100%. This allowed my changes to the top solid fill flowrate to have an effect on the printed part. Unfortunately I could no longer get the bottom solid fill flowrate to have a visible effect in the printed part. It seems to be one or the other working but not both at the same time.

Today I tried changing the filament setting hoping that would change the bottom layers but it did not. It did affect the top layers though.

As I understand it these are the areas of IdeaMaker where the flowrate can be changed:

Filament Settings - Flowrate: accessed from menu>Printer>Filament Settings
(Should affect all flowrates but only affects top layers on my parts).
Advanced Settings- Layer tab - First Layer Settings - First Layer Flowrate
(Should affect the first layer but has no visible effect on my parts).
Advanced Settings- Infill tab - Infill - Infill Flowrate
(Should affect the infill only. I did not test this because all my layers are top or bottom).
Advanced Settings- Infill tab - Top and Down Solid Part - Bottom Solid Fill Flowrate
(Should affect the bottom layers only but has no visible effect on my parts).
Advanced Settings- Infill tab - Top and Down Solid Part - Top Solid Fill Flowrate
(Should affect the top layers only and does have an effect on my parts).
Advanced Settings- Support tab - Support Flowrate
(Should affect support structures only. I did not test this).

If I have misunderstood any of the above please correct me.

I hope my explanation of the problem is clear enough. If you need any files please do not hesitate to ask.

Many thanks,

Tony.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:15 am

The flowrate in filament settings won't change the E value in gcode. It will only ask printer change the overall extrusion amount. The first sence in gcode is M221 T0 S100 means the florwrate for this filament is 100%.

infill 50%, solid top&down layers 3, bottom solid fill flowrate 78%, top solid fill flowrate 106%, flowrate in filament settings 100%
first layer flowrate 92% vs 150%
1.png
1.png (5.97 KiB) Viewed 496 times
2.png
2.png (6.09 KiB) Viewed 496 times


infill 50%, solid top&down layers 3, first layer flowrate 92%, bottom solid fill flowrate 78%, top solid fill flowrate 106%, flowrate in filament settings 100%
infill flow rate 100% vs 150%
3.png
3.png (6.87 KiB) Viewed 496 times
4.png
4.png (6.86 KiB) Viewed 496 times


infill 50%, solid top&down layers 3, first layer flowrate 92%, top solid fill flowrate 106%, flowrate in filament settings 100%
bottom solid fill flowrate 78% vs 92%
The results of first layer will be the same. Because the first layer flowrate are both 92%.
The results will be different from the second layer, the first one is 78%, the second shows 92%.
5.png
5.png (6.45 KiB) Viewed 496 times
6.png
6.png (7.75 KiB) Viewed 496 times


infill 50%, solid top&down layers 3, first layer flowrate 92%, bottom solid fill flowrate 78%, flowrate in filament settings 100%
top solid fill flowrate 106% vs 150%
7.png
7.png (6.9 KiB) Viewed 496 times
8.png
8.png (6.97 KiB) Viewed 496 times

tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:58 pm

Hi Vicky,

Thank you so much for all that effort. You have proved that IdeaMaker is changing the flowrates in the GCode. So I did some more prints to see what I was doing wrong. I had incorrectly assumed that I could measure the outside of my test parts to quickly check for differences due to flowrate changes. It's just not so. :oops:

I printed 5 more complete test parts and then printed even more stopping at various layers to check the fill. I was indeed able to change the flowrate in the top and bottom layers. But the outer dimensions were all the same even when I used 80% flowrate vs. 100% flowrate. The first layer was always nicely filled and not affected by top or bottom settings.

I got this idea from user zemlin who suggested setting bottom layers to 9999 to get better consistency:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12327&p=39343&hilit=9999#p39331

So I tried one of my large parts using zemlin's 'Bottom layers = 9999' suggestion and your 'infill density less than 100%' suggestion. It did not go well.
Layer closeup.jpg

There were intermittent gaps between lines in the infill, except for the first layer. Whenever a new line started it seemed to miss the first bit or put down a very thin line. The worst problem was severe warping (1 to 2mm) at the edges even though I used a brim and the part is solid. I have not had this issue with this filament before.

At least the walls were good.
Walls.jpg


The part I printed with a 0.4 mm nozzle was superb but takes 21 hours to print. Using the 1.0mm nozzle takes 6 hours. Not sure why changing to 1.0mm is giving me so much trouble.

I will check all settings again and scratch my head some more. Maybe that will help.

tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:00 pm

Hi Vicky,

I completed more tests today. I tweaked the settings to get better infill and now the layers are mostly satisfactory. I will post the settings in the Print settings section of the forum once I have them all sorted out.

The warping can not be caused by IdeaMaker so I will sort that out myself.

There are two isolated triangular infill sections shown in this photo.
Dscf4452.jpg


These are poorly filled on all layers except the first.
Dscf4459.jpg


This poor fill rarely happens in some other sections as shown here but not consistently and not in the same location:
Dscf4461.jpg


I have attached the gcode in case that helps you to help me.

If you have any ideas on how to get these two isolated sections to fill properly I would love to hear them. I have checked every printer hardware cause I can think of.

As a side note when the gaps in the corners of these triangular sections are filled the nozzle travels from the right one to the left one and does one corner on each then travels all the way back and forth again to do the other two corners. It takes extra time to do those long travel moves.


Thanks,

Tony.
Attachments
FRONT poncet corner rev1.2,98pct,0Cbed,0fan.zip
(797 KiB) Downloaded 14 times

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:57 am

I'm not sure your issue is due to different printer model or nozzle size.
Based on your picture, seems only the solid fill has extrusion issue. The shells look fine. I'm not sure whether it is a hardware extrusion issue or something can be fixed by settings.
You can try either different solid layer quantity or flowrate value of your solid layers.

tasrgi
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby tasrgi » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:04 pm

Hi Vicky,

Thanks for your help. I realize there is a limit to what you can do to help with non Raise 3D printers. However you did help me a lot.

I will keep fiddling with the settings and post the final ones when I know them.

Please consider this topic closed.

Many thanks,

Tony.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:05 pm

As you have set your solid layer as 9999, tune solid layer flowrate may help.

bcindustrias.com.mx
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:25 pm

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby bcindustrias.com.mx » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:35 pm

Hello Vicky

I hope it does not have to do with another thread I have of my problem, today when I started printing a Gage, some problems have arisen in the printing, I do not know if it is due to the shape of the piece but I have moved some values to try to repair it and simulate and everything keeps appearing the same, the only solution that I found a bit viable was to rotate the piece a bit but in the same way I kept leaving a very porous surface.


I hope you can help me.


The second and third images are the same, the first one is the one with a variation of the inner shell of up to 0.02in

pro 2 plus 3d printer
Attachments
IMG_20190103_152710.jpg
IMG_20190103_152858.jpg
IMG_20190103_152932.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Possible bug setting Top Solid Fill Flowrate version 3.3.0.2343

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:45 am

Would you like to advise whether the surface you dislike in pictures are overhangs supported by material or other sections on model?


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