Help with Supports

Discussions about ideaMaker and other printing software.
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rhines44
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Help with Supports

Postby rhines44 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:24 pm

It's been a while since I've run my printer and was finally able to get it going again. I've been able to start printing without a raft since my bed modification and the quality of my prints overall have been wonderful. My use of supports, however, has been disastrous. Can someone please help me get my support structures under control? Attached is the last print I had done using Polyplus PLA. That stuff has been fantastic.

Please help. :(

Some settings (settings in pictures as well):
Polymaker PLA (Polylactic Acid) PolyPlus Spool, 1.75" Diameter, 750 g, 1.75 mm, White
Standard Setting Fill: 17 Shells: 2
No raft
Support: All
Attachments
Screen Shot 2016-11-09 at 8.16.08 AM.png
support settings.
Screen Shot 2016-11-09 at 8.18.11 AM.png
print orientation
20161109_075240.jpg
20161109_075246.jpg
Where supports touched the print. (too far away?)
20161109_075217.jpg
Extremely happy with the print facing up from the table

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:40 am

Please increase the shell amount to 6 and decrease outer shell speed to 15mm/s.
Support for curved surfaces is not easy to hold all. Or you can try to decrease the vertical offset. But it will make the support harder to peel off.

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walshlg
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby walshlg » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:20 pm

you may want to try manually placing support - you can leave a good 4mm between every 4mm column and it bridges well

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2CNK
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby 2CNK » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:42 pm

I can see I need to work on my supports tweaking - I would be happy if the support-touching side of MY prints looked that good! If that's poor then I have a lot of work to do.

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rhines44
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Location: Illinois

Re: Help with Supports

Postby rhines44 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:27 pm

Thank you for the tips. I'll be sure to implement them. I was so excited when I saw this completed print, then devastated when I saw the support side.

2CNK - sorry to hear that as this is terrible.

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rhines44
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby rhines44 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:46 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Please increase the shell amount to 6 and decrease outer shell speed to 15mm/s.
Support for curved surfaces is not easy to hold all. Or you can try to decrease the vertical offset. But it will make the support harder to peel off.


I just tried (accidentally) decreasing the horizontal offset instead of the vertical and kept everything else the same. Much better for some reason so next, I'll try tweaking the shells, speed, etc. I'll increase shells, decrease Vertical slightly and see how it turns out. Here is the 2nd print with changing the horizontal.

20161111_090139.jpg


I know there are different settings as far as what TYPE of supports you can use. What do you recommend? Standard?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:46 am

The support I'm using at most is manual support on main interface.
Normally I will choose Create Auto Supports first then check whether the supports are generated as I want.
Then I will adjust the pillar size and overhang angle above then auto create again.
Then use Manual Supports again to add or remove or edit to adjust for some special space.

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walshlg
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby walshlg » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:55 pm

BTW, sometimes its just best to model in support by hand - I have had good results modeling tree like supports

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rhines44
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby rhines44 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:28 pm

walshlg wrote:BTW, sometimes its just best to model in support by hand - I have had good results modeling tree like supports


I never really gave that much thought. So in your actual 3d modeling software you add it in? I'll have to work on that. It's a shame that all angles of a design turn out great except where support is needed.

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walshlg
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby walshlg » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:04 pm

I suggest a tree like structure - wide "roots" to give lateral support then a single trunk to go up to where you need support with minimal filament use then start making branches at about 45 degrees tapering down to about 1mm wide and just directly embed into the model at about 5mm intervals.

Jetguy
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby Jetguy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:15 pm

Stop using supports and start tuning extrusion.
Overhang is literally just that, each layer sticks over the edge of the previous layer over space.
If you lay that layer too hot and the plastic retains the heat, then it's not solid and gravity has time to deform it while soft.

So the single 2 biggest factors in overhang are temp of extrusion, because that's how much heat remains in the hot noodle of filament and the second is air cooling. If you have directional ducts that ONLY blow at one side of the nozzle, then you will have classic one side good, one side bad overhang performance.

Support material is the LAST RESORT, not the first thing to try. No matter what you use, an overhang that used support material will never look as good and be blemish free as one that was tuned with cooling and support material never touched the outer finish. You only use support when you know and have tested and tuning cooling and extrusion temp reached the limits where overhang was just too much and the only way to print it is with support.

Jetguy
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Re: Help with Supports

Postby Jetguy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:41 pm

Video for tuning overhang https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGdv86D1x8

Other good tuning basics videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpA8Zu-LCuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7of7LC2-HY

I would literally say this article proves what I'm saying in the negative way. They used massive support material and after removing the support you can see all the marks on the object from the removed support. Did it print? Yes, it printed and reasonably has the basic shape as required, however, surface finish was very damaged all over the model. Further, the specific color here does not show the marks as bad as an opaque solid darker color like blue, black, red, and many others. http://www.protoparadigm.com/news-updat ... overhangs/

Classic overhang test models to tune for a specific filament https://www.youmagine.com/designs/overh ... ing-models

Even Raise 3D mentions alternate fans https://www.raise3d.com/pages/third-party-pla-tuning

I used these which are a thicker fan and require longer M3 screws but blow significantly more air. Note, you have to solder your own connectors to the wires. https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/3444176

There were a dozen or so posts early on about add on fan cooling ducts and blowers for just this type of overhang problem from the largely directional stock cooling ducts.
https://www.raise3d.com/pages/community ... an-upgrade
https://www.raise3d.com/pages/community ... on-cooling
https://www.raise3d.com/pages/community ... uct-system

Here is an early thread in the older Kickstarter forum https://www.raise3d.com/pages/community ... erhangtest

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rhines44
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Location: Illinois

Re: Help with Supports

Postby rhines44 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:06 pm

Jetguy wrote:...


Thank you for all the info. Sorry, I miss responses on this forum every now and again.


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