Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

robkot
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:18 pm

Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby robkot » Wed May 04, 2022 4:05 pm

even after several weeks of investigating, profile tuning and hardware checks, the quality of the outer shells from the pro3 prints cannot improved to an acceptable level.
i've tried all the things i can think of:
# checking the nozzle and the extruder gears.
# check the extruder bearings
# cleaning the extruder gears
# lubricate the extruder gears
# check the screws on the print head
# multiple print bed calibrations (z-offset)
# positive and negative z-offset changes
# switch between left and right extruder
# determine the printing temperature with heat towers
# vary the printing temperature (190 - 230°C)
# vary print speeds (15mm/s – 60 mm/s)
# flow rate calibration (single and dual wall cube)
# vary the flow rate (80 -115%)
# very fan speeds (0-100%)
# switch off the heat bed
# pid tune
# single shell print
#vase mode print
# repeated use of brand new filament spools (to exclude moisture issues)
# change between several pla filaments (polymaker polytera, polymaker pla, filamentum extrafilla pla, extrudr pla nx2)

with all filaments used, the artifacts can be seen on the outer shells.
only with Raise3D Premium PLA these are extremely difficult to see > print quality is good.

unfortunately, the Pro3 currently delivers a lower quality (on outer shells) than an Ender 3 with the same OFP-material (filamentum extrafill pla) - which is more than unexpected for a >6k printer.

I completely understand that the printer delivers the best results with its own filament (Raise3D PLA). however, i would also expect more (with third party filament), especially when using OFP materials.

therefore the "solution" of my local provider is -> use Raise3D PLA,
i ask someone from the community about their print results with pla (e.g. filamentum, …) to finally determine, this is still an issue with the machine, non-optimal settings or the results are the quality standard on Pro3.

suggestions for possible improvements are also very welcome.
Attachments
IMG_0911.jpg
fillamentum pla extrafill
IMG_0910.jpg
polymaker polyterra

User avatar
Ryan@Raise3D
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:43 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby Ryan@Raise3D » Sat May 07, 2022 12:53 am

Unfortunately, these materials are not on the OFP for the Pro3 at this time. If you would like we can start adjusting settings to fix this, but to do so can you share the Gcode used for these prints?

dc@aka
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:19 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby dc@aka » Sun May 08, 2022 4:40 pm

We got the same phenomenon on our printers (two Pro3)
It has nothing to do with the files or gcode or anything wrong with the machines.

It is so wired that we only get acceptable results with Raise3D filament...!

Got some basf PLA here and it is really bad. And other brands, some better than others but not perfect.
PLA normally prints pretty good on any printer. Like Ender whatever - much better than on the Pro3.
How can that be...

You guys really have to work on this!

robkot
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:18 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby robkot » Mon May 09, 2022 7:29 am

Ryan@Raise3D wrote:Unfortunately, these materials are not on the OFP for the Pro3 at this time. If you would like we can start adjusting settings to fix this, but to do so can you share the Gcode used for these prints?


hi ryan, thanks for the clarification about ofp. my previous understanding, if the filament is listed (https://www.raise3d.eu/compatible-filaments/) so there is basic compatibility with ALL Raise3D machines. so ofp status is machine specific and only active if Raise3D has released a profile for a machine right?

anyway, I hope we can expect significantly better print results from the pro3, independent from the not yet achieved ofp status (e.g. with filamentum extrafill pla). In my attachments you can find a compilation of test prints which should show the effect very well, basically it is the well-known calibration cube and simple boxes.

i will also reprint this gcodes and upload the photos once the prints are complete.

we really need a solution for this, so we actually had to reactivate our old printer (from Anycubic) for parts where we need a better surface quality.

which is really disappointing next to a printer like the pro3.

thanks
Attachments
Testing - Pro3 - ExtrafillPLA.bin
Fillamentum PLA Extrafill - Profil
(24.39 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
SingleWallCube40_RaisePLA.gcode
40mm Single Wall Cube (Raise3D Premium PLA)
(222.04 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
SingleWallCube40_ExtrafillPLA.gcode
40mm Single Wall Cube (Fillamentum PLA Extrafill)
(222.69 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
CalibrationCube40_RaisePLA.gcode
40mm Calibration Cube (Raise3D Premium PLA)
(1.14 MiB) Downloaded 6 times
CalibrationCube40_ExtrafillPLA.gcode
40mm Calibration Cube (Fillamentum PLA Extrafill)
(1.12 MiB) Downloaded 8 times

robkot
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:18 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby robkot » Mon May 09, 2022 11:30 am

dc@aka wrote:We got the same phenomenon on our printers (two Pro3)
It has nothing to do with the files or gcode or anything wrong with the machines.

It is so wired that we only get acceptable results with Raise3D filament...!

Got some basf PLA here and it is really bad. And other brands, some better than others but not perfect.
PLA normally prints pretty good on any printer. Like Ender whatever - much better than on the Pro3.
How can that be...

You guys really have to work on this!


thanks for sharing your experience with this problem. this should confirm that this is (unfortunately) not an single issue with my machine and even replacing may not lead to a solution.

after countless test prints to find a solution, I think the problem is always present on the pro3 and seems to be some sort of inconsistent extrusion.
(MAYBE related to https://mihaidesigns.com/pages/inconsis ... usion-test)

however, my theory the Raise3D pla deals with this inconsistency much better than many other pla filaments and smooths them out, so if you use Raise3D PLA, the problem is extremely hard to see.

from my current point of view the problem exists due to the design of the new extruder-system of the Pro3 (and is the reason why this problem does not appear on Pro2, E2,...) or hopefully a quality problem with certain parts. unfortunately, based on my previous experience, I tend to rule out mechanical or software-related settings.

the most important question is how and when will Raise3D offer a solution for this?

because of this and other "solved" problems (ghosting), we can use the printer only limited since delivery (in january)

this becomes more and more a real problem considering that we wanted to replace our current "china printers" with Raise3D machines to increase process stability.

robkot
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:18 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby robkot » Fri May 13, 2022 4:05 am

robkot wrote:
Ryan@Raise3D wrote:Unfortunately, these materials are not on the OFP for the Pro3 at this time. If you would like we can start adjusting settings to fix this, but to do so can you share the Gcode used for these prints?


hi ryan, thanks for the clarification about ofp. my previous understanding, if the filament is listed (https://www.raise3d.eu/compatible-filaments/) so there is basic compatibility with ALL Raise3D machines. so ofp status is machine specific and only active if Raise3D has released a profile for a machine right?

anyway, I hope we can expect significantly better print results from the pro3, independent from the not yet achieved ofp status (e.g. with filamentum extrafill pla). In my attachments you can find a compilation of test prints which should show the effect very well, basically it is the well-known calibration cube and simple boxes.

i will also reprint this gcodes and upload the photos once the prints are complete.

we really need a solution for this, so we actually had to reactivate our old printer (from Anycubic) for parts where we need a better surface quality.

which is really disappointing next to a printer like the pro3.

thanks


my print results attached
Attachments
IMG_0939.jpg
calibration cube (raise premium pla)
IMG_0935.jpg
single wall cube (raise premium pla)
IMG_0937.jpg
calibration cube (fillamentum pla extrafill)
IMG_0933.jpg
single wall cube (fillamentum pla extrafill)

robkot
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:18 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby robkot » Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 am

robkot wrote:
dc@aka wrote:We got the same phenomenon on our printers (two Pro3)
It has nothing to do with the files or gcode or anything wrong with the machines.

It is so wired that we only get acceptable results with Raise3D filament...!

Got some basf PLA here and it is really bad. And other brands, some better than others but not perfect.
PLA normally prints pretty good on any printer. Like Ender whatever - much better than on the Pro3.
How can that be...

You guys really have to work on this!


thanks for sharing your experience with this problem. this should confirm that this is (unfortunately) not an single issue with my machine and even replacing may not lead to a solution.

after countless test prints to find a solution, I think the problem is always present on the pro3 and seems to be some sort of inconsistent extrusion.
(MAYBE related to https://mihaidesigns.com/pages/inconsis ... usion-test)

however, my theory the Raise3D pla deals with this inconsistency much better than many other pla filaments and smooths them out, so if you use Raise3D PLA, the problem is extremely hard to see.

from my current point of view the problem exists due to the design of the new extruder-system of the Pro3 (and is the reason why this problem does not appear on Pro2, E2,...) or hopefully a quality problem with certain parts. unfortunately, based on my previous experience, I tend to rule out mechanical or software-related settings.

the most important question is how and when will Raise3D offer a solution for this?

because of this and other "solved" problems (ghosting), we can use the printer only limited since delivery (in january)

this becomes more and more a real problem considering that we wanted to replace our current "china printers" with Raise3D machines to increase process stability.


what i mean by "the phenomenon is always present on the pro3"
take a print under specific lighting conditions (key light from above) so the problem can also be observed on raise3d pla print (photo attached)


i worked also on several abs prints this week. to sum it up i can find this pattern on every single print (also abs).
Attachments
IMG_0943.jpg
single wall cube under key light (raise premium pla)

dc@aka
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:19 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby dc@aka » Fri May 13, 2022 10:13 am

Hey Raise

is there really not one filament in the open filament program listed thats compatible with the Pro3??

Are you serious?

User avatar
ccclarke
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:09 pm

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby ccclarke » Sat May 14, 2022 2:57 pm

“this becomes more and more a real problem considering that we wanted to replace our current "china printers" with Raise3D machines to increase process stability.[/quote]


You traded one brand of Chinese printer for another.
Male Modeler / Sub-Human

ZombiePach
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:16 am

Re: Pro3 - Quality Issues (third party filament OFP)

Postby ZombiePach » Sun May 15, 2022 2:19 am

Yep. Raise is Chinese. That's why the poor support staff seems so ineffective. They appear to have to send everything to the "developers" who are in China...and wait. It also seems there's zero return communication to them from the "developers". I pity them, it's got to be maddening to be in their shoes. With us hammering them and they being unable to change anything for us, as much as they want to...

Robkot, could you explain the "solved" ghosting issue you mentioned? I also am having pretty signifigant ghosting and sumbitted a Support Ticket. What I got back was essentially "go slower". There doesn't seem to be any quantifiable way to check belt tension, and I attempted to use the Raise Profile Iterator, which suggested adjusting jerk and acceleration settings. That didn't do a thing for the problem. Support also said I shouldn't be touching jerk and acceleration as they have been optimized by the "Pro3 development" for best results. This is with Raise PLA.


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