Which stepper motors are installed?

Proschi3d
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Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Proschi3d » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:28 am

Which stepper motors are installed?
Where can I find data sheets
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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:50 pm

The motors that we use are a classic NEMA style stepper motor. Unfortunately, we do not have any type of datasheets available for the motors that we use in our machines.

Proschi3d
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Proschi3d » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:32 am

how could that know besides you?
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Markus64
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Markus64 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:04 am

Steven@Raise3D wrote:The motors that we use are a classic NEMA style stepper motor. Unfortunately, we do not have any type of datasheets available for the motors that we use in our machines.


With that statement you shot yourself in the knee.

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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Proschi3d » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:12 am

Steven@Raise3D wrote:The motors that we use are a classic NEMA style stepper motor. Unfortunately, we do not have any type of datasheets available for the motors that we use in our machines.


How should a device work properly if I don't know what to install?
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ccclarke
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby ccclarke » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:34 pm

Based on their lack of concrete data, it would appear that Raise3D has a policy of minimizing the internal workings of their hardware - which is their perogative. Of course they know what the vendor part numbers are of the parts they install; you just aren't likely to obtain it from them unless they decide to release the data. They have no obligation to do so.

It didn't work with your motion controller board connector pinout request, or the stepper (there are several types depending on function) motor details. Are you starting to see a trend here?

Unless they decide otherwise, you have been given your answer.
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Proschi3d
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Proschi3d » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:02 pm

ccclarke wrote:Based on their lack of concrete data, it would appear that Raise3D has a policy of minimizing the internal workings of their hardware - which is their perogative. Of course they know what the vendor part numbers are of the parts they install; you just aren't likely to obtain it from them unless they decide to release the data. They have no obligation to do so.

It didn't work with your motion controller board connector pinout request, or the stepper (there are several types depending on function) motor details. Are you starting to see a trend here?

Unless they decide otherwise, you have been given your answer.


What is your role in Raise 3d? Maybe you can put your energy into troubleshooting. E.g. the data transfer from the controller board to the motion board .... my Prusa i3 Mk3 is better. Print a cylinder with 50mm diameter in the vase mod on an E2. The printer is overwhelmed. 3500 € costs a printer that has nothing on it. Have a nice Weekend
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Proschi3d » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:37 pm

With this setting, Raise 3d can only lose. I would be embarrassed if I didn't have any answers to questions about a device. I only hide when I screwed up :)
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ccclarke
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby ccclarke » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:56 am

As a general rule, when it comes to expensive purchases, (whether it's an automobile or a high-end printer) I let the first adopters discover and report any bugs, opting to wait until I know a product review assures me it is reliable enough to justify the expense. I operate and maintain three Raise3D printers - none of which is an E2, for the reason just described. You gambled on an expensive, new model, and it appears you may have lost, though time will tell. I hope the company can sort things out for you, but in an earlier post you said the printer was going back. Why prolong your misery, or is it all just talk? By all means, enjoy your Prusa - they make a really nice printer. But if your printing experience is miserable and you can't get the support you feel you deserve, by all means, why not obtain a refund and move on with your life?

After making online threats to a company in a futile attempt to intimidate them into providing information, (your Duet posts) it's little wonder you are receiving zero cooperation. Are you really surprised you are not able to obtain a part or model number of a simple COTS component?

I contacted Raise3D last week for some technical information regarding the Pro2, and received a comprehensive reply within 24 hours. I am more than pleased with their technical support so far. I doubt mine is an isolated case. Online forums are a venue for a minority of people to complain, which gives the false impression that a product is faulty. The numbers of posts of people who sign up, ask a few questions and move on far outnumber the posts of people who are regular visitors. The vast majority of Raise3D owners are busy using their printers as intended. This doesn't mean your complaints aren't valid, but . . .

Maybe factory support is only available in the US and on this site, (Raise3D has an online and telephone call support center in Los Angeles.) It appears all technical support issues are referred to the originating reseller in the EU. Do the EU distributors have factory-trained technicians to offer assistance? If not, hopefully they will in the future.

If you aren't satisfied with your printer or the support you need, there are other companies ready to earn your business. Again, Raise3D is not obligated to give you any detailed information regarding their products, any more than BMW or Mercedes will tell you what's inside their vehicle modules or give you the operating code. Modifications are always performed at the owner's risk - for any product.

This is not the truth you want to hear, but it is the truth. (Raise3D can change any policy at their discretion.)

Enjoy your weekend too.

CC
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Proschi3d
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Proschi3d » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:09 pm

I didn't really want to say anything more about it, but the successful printers on the market are all open source. Users usually have better ideas than and improve the product on their own. The E2 is a good printer if you don't use the raise software and the controller board If you pull out the USB plug and connect it to a Raspberry with Octoprint, it does what it should. The quality of the prints is much better ... The transfer of the Gcode from the controller board to the motion board is a disaster ... .
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ccclarke
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby ccclarke » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:11 pm

All good points and I fully agree with the first two points.

During the Home Computer Wars of the early 1980's, I worked on the front lines at Texas Instruments in their consumer electronics computer division. Everything technical was kept from the public - especially the internal coding. I watched the price of the computer drop every quarter as the competition made their internal workings public and consumers created more innovative software that ultimately boosted their hardware sales as ours remained stagnant, even though we were told we were going to sell even more units as we continued to drop prices below the manufacturing cost. I found another job and told all my friends to do the same while they could. Most laughed it off.

Five months later, they pulled out of the home computer business and thousands of employees were laid off when the plant closed.

With the advent of online forums such as these, it is in any company's best interests to listen, determine if reported problems exist, and provide feedback. Raise3D is pretty good about this, but could do better. My purchase of an E2 is indefinitely on hold until the expected first year bugs are squashed.
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FOGD.NO
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby FOGD.NO » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:19 pm

For the stepper moving the head it is BOHONG 42HB40F09AB-04 with 38mm long shaft (Yes.. that long) and are around 17usd each from the BOHONG

they could be purchased from the company directly. PS!.. Shipping is insane.

I am looking into using hollow shaft stepper motor instead and then have a lathe made shaft for it, but need to find a good replacement motor.
The bearing for the shaft could be replaced with SS MF 105 2RS https://www.kugellager-express.de/stain ... -5x10x4-mm



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Louie Morais
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Re: Which stepper motors are installed?

Postby Louie Morais » Fri May 07, 2021 12:46 pm

FOGD.NO wrote:For the stepper moving the head it is BOHONG 42HB40F09AB-04 with 38mm long shaft (Yes.. that long) and are around 17usd each from the BOHONG

they could be purchased from the company directly. PS!.. Shipping is insane.

I am looking into using hollow shaft stepper motor instead and then have a lathe made shaft for it, but need to find a good replacement motor.
The bearing for the shaft could be replaced with SS MF 105 2RS https://www.kugellager-express.de/stain ... -5x10x4-mm


Thank you very much, Prototype Guru! There were points in this thread that were quite uncomfortable to read and although we shouldn't expect Raise3D to just hand out all their specs and trade "secrets", at times I feel that I can't trust their support elsewhere. Saying that they don't have any datasheets whatsoever instead of plainly and honestly saying they don't release information about their hardware parts and software for (very understandable and justifiable) commercial reasons makes me feel more dubious.

The last time this happened I was told by a source that I had to buy a whole new hotend from them, because, according to this source, they didn't stock the cables for the hotend only and that the end connectors for the cables (thermocouple and heating cartridge) were likely to be proprietary. Thanks to Raise3D HQ, I discovered none of that was true and that source actually stocked and sold the cables separately. I can see a pattern here which I really don't like and which goes against the very reason why I went American and expensive: trust.

I researched the connector types and discovered that they were a JST GH 1.25mm 3P for the thermocouple and a JST XH 2P for the heating rod and have been buying them at a price of US$ 1 per 50cm cable with the M3 screw already attached to an 800 celsius cable from a factory shop in AliExpress and just changing the end connector to the GH format. I am close to doing the same with the heating cartridge, just waiting for the cartridge samples from several factories found and researched in AliBaba to arrive with 600 celsius cables and the XH connectors already attached to the cables. Cost varying from US$ 4 to US$ 8 per wired cartridge in a small run of just 5.

I have created a prototype of an extension from the board enclosure that places the connectors outside and allows me to connect the thermo and heater cables to the extension without having to open the extruder board enclosure - this way I just need to disconnect the cables from the extension, loosen the hotend screw and just put another readymade hotend for that specific filament in its place. I was planning to buy 4 new whole extruders to do that and now I am potentially close to doing that for a fraction.

I re-threaded a hotend to accept US$3 MK8 heat breaks (yes they are longer so I needed to re-print the air vents to direct air to the end of the nozzles) and am looking into cutting my own hotends from industrial aluminium I got off local vendors in the UK just so that I can have all my specific hotends for each different filament. Those changes are still in test and failing that, I will try CNCing the hotend and in the process create a well needed guard with steel wire mesh (already purchased too) that prevents blobs creeping up the hotend and enveloping the thermo and heating cables as it usually happens. I will give my findings back to the community and Raise3D when I am sure they are responsibly worth sharing.

Why am I hacking the hell out of a three-thousand-pounds printer? Do I need to save money?

Not at all - I have the saved budget of two family holidays abroad not taken thanks to Covid. When I bought my E2 printer I bought absolutely every single extra service. I am doing that because I simply can't trust what I am told and I simply want independence from Raise3d's channel model. I don't trust sources of untruthful or unchecked information.

It is a good thing I endured until the end of this thread and saw your post! All my experiments mean that I am busting parts every week and I was dreading to go back to a reseller to buy the z-axis motor and rod that I managed to bend. Will buy a box full of those and break some to learn more.


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