More filament sensor problems

Bikeracer
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Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:54 am

More filament sensor problems

Postby Bikeracer » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:37 pm

I returned my E2 because among other things it was on it's third filament sensor from new beginning of July, so about a six week time span.
One of the replacements was actually faulty from the get go !!

Just put the first print through the brand new replacement printer and three minutes into its very first print the filament sensor paused the print. not a good start.

It seems that the movement of the bowden tube can trigger it, it only takes lifting the Bowden tube to put the light out, but when the tube is let down again the light comes on, so no go.

I'd like to know when Raise3D are going to do something about this sensor issue because I'm pretty sure my supplier will soon get fed up or run out of sensors.

There is also the risk that if this cannot be cured very soon then under English law an item can be returned after one attempt to put a fault right and failing to do so. I don't envisage having to keep buying replacement sensors when the warranty runs out, I don't know how much they are and I have no intention of finding out.
I don't want to go down that route because Raise3D are letting my supplier as well as several customers down.

So if Raise3D just ignore this then there could be more printers returned.
Last edited by Bikeracer on Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ccclarke
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Re: More filament sensor faults

Postby ccclarke » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:53 pm

Not good. Either there is a serious design flaw built-in to the E2 and you're the only one reporting it here or you've got the worst luck in the 3D printing world where filament runout sensors are concerned . . .

Just for comparison purposes, (because I cannot fathom how a Bowden tube would trip trip a filament runout sensor because it should be seated higher then the sensor) I measured a length of filament placed in a Pro2 filament runout sensor and the LED extinguished at a depth of 27mm. The depth of the Bowden tube when seated was 9mm. You don't even need a full length of Bowden tube to print, but it sure helps.

Measure yours and compare - I would be surprised if Raise3D radically redesigned a working sensor design. This isn't rocket science unless you're printing with some really weird transparent filament, which I doubt. . . .

CC
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Bikeracer
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Re: More filament sensor faults

Postby Bikeracer » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:15 am

The Bowden tube fits in a standard screwed in airline type fitting, it cannot get past the end of that and into the sensor. It is seated well clear of the sensor.
When the sensor triggers and the light comes on it will go out again simply by lifting the tube up, so it seems the sensor is sensitive to the movement of the Bowden tube.

At the moment I'm running with the sensors turned off and I noticed that the light would still come on and go off again.

I'm going to try another print with the Bowden tube lifted out of the sensor to see if that does anything and then if not I'll swap the sensors over, might as well get two new sensors at the same time if that fails.

Perhaps the sensors don't like yellow PLA.

Not just me with sensor problems either..
https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20846

Edit 1... Lifting bowden tube oute of connector did not correct the problem.

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ccclarke
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Re: More filament sensor faults

Postby ccclarke » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:28 am

The link you posted sounds like a one-off sensor issue. Parts can and do fail; we've all been there. Your problem seems different. Multiple sensor failures across two machines that aren't intermittent, experienced by one owner is compelling evidence that something is very wrong. When we release a new product where I work, we would be focusing on obtaining the suspect faulty parts, performing forensic analysis, and determine the cause / fix ASAP.

I participate in a number of online forums and its easy for problems to be magnified, so one has to keep them in perspective. It's common for someone who may be evaluating a product to read posts in a forum and get an immediate negative impression, because forum members mostly report negative experiences not positive ones. Owners who have working printers are too busy printing; they'll turn to a forum for help if required. There lurkers will always outnumber those who post. I take a lot of forum posts with a grain of salt but learn a lot from experienced members.

Thousands of Raise3D printers have been shipped. Active participation by printer owners in this forum is a very small percentage of total ownership. The majority of the owners posting have very few posts. Very few ever provide feedback after reporting a problem. Owners who have trouble-free experiences rarely post. Determining if a problem is a design flaw, batch of bad parts, component failure, or operator error takes time to sort out via Raise3D expertise or member comments.

Yours is an interesting problem that could be easy or hard to solve. If it were a design flaw, I would expect more E2 owners to be reporting it, but since the E2 is new and there are very few E2 owners on this forum, it's impossible to say - yet.

Do the symptoms change with different colors of filament?

Is the filament sensor securely mounted within it's housing? (This would point to a QA issue during assembly.)

At what insertion depth does filament trigger the sensor? Is it consistent?

Can you trigger the sensor and cause it to change state by tapping on the sensor housing? (This might indicate a sensor manufacturing problem or mounting issue.)
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Bikeracer
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Re: More filament sensor faults

Postby Bikeracer » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:25 pm

ccclarke wrote:
Do the symptoms change with different colors of filament?

Is the filament sensor securely mounted within it's housing? (This would point to a QA issue during assembly.)

At what insertion depth does filament trigger the sensor? Is it consistent?

Can you trigger the sensor and cause it to change state by tapping on the sensor housing? (This might indicate a sensor manufacturing problem or mounting issue.)


Checking if it's a colour problem is my next move, I seem to think that I had no problem before I started using the yellow PLA.

I've not checked how secure it's mounted, but the holding screw has always been tight each time I've changed one and the sensor never appears loose.

All I've noticed is that the light goes out as soon as the filamant is in the sensor and stays out until it's removed.

I don't know about tapping on the housing because it's under a cover, but it can usually be triggered by jiggling the filament sideways or front to back, as in if it's triggered and the light is on, if the filament is then moved about in any sideways or front to back movement the light will go out. Sometimes it's triggered and then the light will not be on when I go to resume a print.

Aero3D
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Re: More filament sensor problems

Postby Aero3D » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:18 pm

I reckon your issue is filament related. The E2 uses optical sensors that are sensitive to certain filaments, particularly translucent filaments. The first thing I would do is change the filament and try again. I'd like to bet it is not machine-related but filament related.

Bikeracer
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Re: More filament sensor problems

Postby Bikeracer » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:21 am

Aero3D wrote:I reckon your issue is filament related. The E2 uses optical sensors that are sensitive to certain filaments, particularly translucent filaments. The first thing I would do is change the filament and try again. I'd like to bet it is not machine-related but filament related.


I hope that's the answer.

I've got red, blue, white and orange I could try next, and since I'd only used white or red before without the problem it'll be either of those first then the others.

Bikeracer
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:54 am

Re: More filament sensor problems

Postby Bikeracer » Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:46 pm

Aero3D wrote:I reckon your issue is filament related. The E2 uses optical sensors that are sensitive to certain filaments, particularly translucent filaments. The first thing I would do is change the filament and try again. I'd like to bet it is not machine-related but filament related.


Just done a 1.45 hr print with blue filament and it sailed through no problems, so it looks like Raise3D yellow PLA can give problems for some reason. I know that just from my experience that it might not be the definitive answer until other colours are tried.

Perhaps Raise3D ought to send out all new printers with yellow PLA, then if they got a lot of complaints about the sensor they might do something about it.

I'll have to contact 3DGBIRE tomorrow and inform them, I'll bet they'll be over the moon knowing they sent two replacement sensors out when it looks like it's a filament colour problem.

I think Raise3D should describe these sensors on their site as an 'Optical filament sensor that might work sometimes but sometimes might not work' :lol:

I see in the 'general' section that a sensor can be realigned on the Pro series.
The sensor on the E2 is held in place by by two locating lugs and just one screw, any suggestions as to how to realign the sensor on the E2 which only has one fixxing screw holding it in place ?


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