Bed Leveling

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
Andy Cohen
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:14 pm

rlballard wrote:Andy,
This is a sweet Mod and I think I will undertake this in the near future, it makes perfect sense and I like the point:

" I also can adjust bed height on the fly and not blind via the limit switch screw".

To that end, as far as the spring stabilizer and washer I am going to go with PTFE rather than PETG that close to the bed, less chance of issues at higher temperatures. If I use a glass filled PTFE it give me the ability to hit the upper end of the temperature range of the system with a continous service temperature of 288C. I will let you know before I undertake the project. I want to print out the components to get the right dimensions. Thanks for the information...
BB

BB, you will never have a material that needs more then 100C from the bed heater. I also really doubt the heater can go much higher then 100C anyway. In time any material will change shape in there. But if you can adjust it won't matter much. This is one of the reasons I simply cannot see the logic in a fixed approach.

Andy Cohen
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:20 pm

gyro wrote:Here's a tip to aid the levelling with the new screws, wind in the first worm screw tipped or otherwise, move the printhead over the top of the screw, wind the worm screw until it just touches the nozzle, repeat with the rest of the screws this will have them all protruding the same amount relative to the nozzles.
In my case I replaced the fish paper with 1.5mm ply lasercut to the same shape as the paper insulators.

I also noted the the heated bed has a 0.93mm concave bow which I pressed out, as when the glass was clipped down to was bowing too not allowing a good first layer.
My next mod is to measure the sag of the rods that support the dual nozzle print head (I'm guessing about 0.2mm), a have some ground chromed linear 8mm rod that I intend bending by the same amount as the sag and replacing the originals, I'll let you know of it was worth the effort!

All the best Andrew@Gyro

http://www.gyro.co.nz

It should go to the right height per your limit switch thumb screw setting using the "Z" Home selection in the utilities screen.
I see sag in the Y rails in the gantry. They are simply too thin for their length with all the weight of a dual extruder.

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:22 am

Good point Andy, I guess I had hot ends on my mind and not the bed.... I guess I should be busy and print out the parts, I've got some Polymaker PC-Plus I have been wanting to try but have been fighting some issues with the Z-stop adjusting screw. The Top has about a 4 degree angle to it that I didn't notice and struggled trying to get the nozzles to a .127mm gap. After discovering the issue I made a new block and used an allen cap screw. now it works great.

By the way, in that struggle I thinned out my first layer waaaaayyyyy to much. So you know what I was up against. Ran the scraper right through the Buildtak. Now I'm on painters tape and a glue stick and the first two prints seemed to be working well...

I will let you know when I am ready to do the build plate change out. I will be traveling next week, going to the New York 3D Printing Show and then on to some customer visits in Connecticut. I won't be doing much until after the 20th..

Andy Cohen
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:41 pm

rlballard wrote:Good point Andy, I guess I had hot ends on my mind and not the bed.... I guess I should be busy and print out the parts, I've got some Polymaker PC-Plus I have been wanting to try but have been fighting some issues with the Z-stop adjusting screw. The Top has about a 4 degree angle to it that I didn't notice and struggled trying to get the nozzles to a .127mm gap. After discovering the issue I made a new block and used an allen cap screw. now it works great.

By the way, in that struggle I thinned out my first layer waaaaayyyyy to much. So you know what I was up against. Ran the scraper right through the Buildtak. Now I'm on painters tape and a glue stick and the first two prints seemed to be working well...

I will let you know when I am ready to do the build plate change out. I will be traveling next week, going to the New York 3D Printing Show and then on to some customer visits in Connecticut. I won't be doing much until after the 20th..


OK.. when you return ( had to pass on it this year due to cost) flip the plate over. Go get a can of Aquanet Super Extra hold, unscented... Wipe the glass clean with denatured alcohol. Put the plate glass up on a very level flat place and coat the plate until it beads up and is held by surface tension at the edges. Let it dry. It could take a long time, possibly overnight. So after 2 or 3 hours a blow dryer will make it go faster and we find heat makes it stick better anyway. When dry, do it again. Then one more time for 3 clean, flat, thick coats as a base. Once it is all dry and you are ready to print you spray a light dusting on the surface right before hand... Now, since the N2 is a whopper pulling the plate in and out to do the light spray can be a pain, so I spray on to my fingers and smear it over the spot where the object will be printed.
When you print you want I nice squish to the extrusion of the first layer, if the extrusion is round you are not close enough. If the extrusion is not smooth you are too close. When completed you can remove the object with a spatula or knife... but for really big, really delicate or those prints which are simply being stubborn, you put the plate in the freezer for 10 minutes or so and the print WILL come off. The stuff in AQ gets hard with heat and goes soft in cold.
Right before the next print do the finger smear again and wipe over the edges of the previous print to remove the imprint.
Until there's better this is IMO the optimal method approach.
Although this week we are experimenting with PVA as well as a new flexible plate that was just released to the mkt.

gyro
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Location: Auckland NZ
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby gyro » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:26 am

Hi All,
I spent a few hours pressing the remaining bend out of my heater plate, I have replaced the glass with 6mm G10 FR4 Glass Epoxy Sheet, I slit the edge with a 3mm tipped saw, probably blunted it in the process!
The slit allows the clips to clamp below the build surface give a clear build surface, see pics.
I also remove the heated bed and pressed the last bit of bow out of it also replacing the 2mm ply insulators/bolt end protectors (which replaced the fish paper ones) with laser cut units made from an old linishing belt which have a very robust backing and the screw ends don't sink in when tightened.

As a BuildTak alternative I've been trying Blackboard vinyl which is available from most suppliers of signage vinyl, it is thinner at 0.2mm but peels from the build plate easily and has a surface texture almost identical to BuildTak, pic attached.

Best andrew@gyro
Attachments
Build Plate_1.JPG
Build Plate_2.JPG
GyroTak.JPG
Thanks in advance
Andrew@Gyro

www.gyro.co.nz

3DWannaBe
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby 3DWannaBe » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:36 pm

I found this thread after I did my first bunch prints are saw the bed was lower in the front and higher in the back. So is there a way one can fix this???

Andy Cohen
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:08 am

gyro wrote:Hi All,
I spent a few hours pressing the remaining bend out of my heater plate, I have replaced the glass with 6mm G10 FR4 Glass Epoxy Sheet, I slit the edge with a 3mm tipped saw, probably blunted it in the process!
The slit allows the clips to clamp below the build surface give a clear build surface, see pics.
I also remove the heated bed and pressed the last bit of bow out of it also replacing the 2mm ply insulators/bolt end protectors (which replaced the fish paper ones) with laser cut units made from an old linishing belt which have a very robust backing and the screw ends don't sink in when tightened.

As a BuildTak alternative I've been trying Blackboard vinyl which is available from most suppliers of signage vinyl, it is thinner at 0.2mm but peels from the build plate easily and has a surface texture almost identical to BuildTak, pic attached.

Best andrew@gyro

We are currently testing Zebraplate. So far the results look quite impressive, but from years of experience with this kind of stuff a small sample size does not mean a thing. We will see what happens.

Andy Cohen
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:10 am

3DWannaBe wrote:I found this thread after I did my first bunch prints are saw the bed was lower in the front and higher in the back. So is there a way one can fix this???

Look for the mod I posted above... but first I suggest you try to get it level by shimming with Postit notes. Then there's the instructions on the Raise3D wiki on their website. :roll:

petrdel
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:33 am

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby petrdel » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:16 pm

gyro wrote:Here's a tip to aid the levelling with the new screws, wind in the first worm screw tipped or otherwise, move the printhead over the top of the screw, wind the worm screw until it just touches the nozzle, repeat with the rest of the screws this will have them all protruding the same amount relative to the nozzles.
In my case I replaced the fish paper with 1.5mm ply lasercut to the same shape as the paper insulators.

I also noted the the heated bed has a 0.93mm concave bow which I pressed out, as when the glass was clipped down to was bowing too not allowing a good first layer.
My next mod is to measure the sag of the rods that support the dual nozzle print head (I'm guessing about 0.2mm), a have some ground chromed linear 8mm rod that I intend bending by the same amount as the sag and replacing the originals, I'll let you know of it was worth the effort!

All the best Andrew@Gyro

http://www.gyro.co.nz


I'm planning to re-level my bed when I relieve the new nylon tipped screws. This seems like a great starting point.
So just take off the heated bed. Wind the screws to just touch the nozzle. Replace heated bed and re-measure.

Should the gap between the bed and nozzle be 2mm or 1mm? Anyone have a preference?

Thanks for your help.

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walshlg
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby walshlg » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:33 pm

gap shouldn't be more than layer height, try 200 um, and can always slice the first few layers thicker - i.e at your gap setting.

biaggiboy
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby biaggiboy » Sat May 07, 2016 6:19 pm

I just received my N2 the other day and I know it has the V2 nozzel and new heated setup. My print bed is a little uneven in a corner, one corner is too close and the other is too far away. Is there a simple way to make miner adjustments in bed level with the new setup or is the information in this thread the best way. I read somewhere that by taking the glass off and leveling the bolts while the print head is directly above and touching the nozzel to each bolt will level it, then u put the glass back on and use the Z limit switch to set the clearence. Is this the right method? Thanks in advance for any information

Zettlinger
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Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Zettlinger » Sat May 07, 2016 6:38 pm

https://www.raise3d.com/pages/bed-leveling-instruction

Thats how Raise3d advises to do it IF you decide to level (which they say it should not need)

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John@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:42 am

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby John@Raise3D » Sat May 07, 2016 11:21 pm

Please follow instructions here. https://www.raise3d.com/pages/bed-leveling-instruction
Note: yours already has nylon tip screws.

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rlballard
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Mon May 09, 2016 2:02 am

Working on a better method of bed leveling, I have designed a bracket to attach to the rails and rest against the extruder housing. I have not fully validated the model yet as I am running some long cycles on the printer. I have test fitted it and it clips in well, here are a couple of shots to give you a little insight, if it works, this will reduce the time to level the bed and do it accurately. The dial indicator is cheap at $27, and can be found on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-Ind ... ge_o08_s00 ). I will keep you posted on the progress, I am currently running a 35-hour print with the V2 nozzles to see how they hold up, so far, I am impressed.
BB
Attachments
N2 Indicator Mount.png
IMG_2198.JPG
IMG_2197.JPG
IMG_2195.JPG
IMG_2196.JPG

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon May 09, 2016 9:15 am

rlballard wrote:Working on a better method of bed leveling, I have designed a bracket to attach to the rails and rest against the extruder housing. I have not fully validated the model yet as I am running some long cycles on the printer. I have test fitted it and it clips in well, here are a couple of shots to give you a little insight, if it works, this will reduce the time to level the bed and do it accurately. The dial indicator is cheap at $27, and can be found on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-Ind ... ge_o08_s00 ). I will keep you posted on the progress, I am currently running a 35-hour print with the V2 nozzles to see how they hold up, so far, I am impressed.
BB


Nice design. Thought that I have seen the same idea in the old community posted by Guido. Both a nice one.
Attachments
filehelper_1462785254802_28.png

biaggiboy
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby biaggiboy » Tue May 10, 2016 9:57 pm

Hey rlballard will u be releasing the stl of the bracket for others to use?

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Wed May 11, 2016 2:54 am

Absolutely, I just published this on Thingiverse....
Keep in mind, this has not been fully tested to look for revision.
BB

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1554800

biaggiboy
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Bed Leveling

Postby biaggiboy » Thu May 12, 2016 7:08 pm

Awesome I'll be downloading it soon and looking forward to updates. This method in my opinion seems to be a better way of leveling this bed in particular .

Charles
Posts: 164
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Charles » Thu May 12, 2016 9:16 pm

The scale may be off a bit, I tried to bring it into Imagemaker and it is tiny. perhaps wrong units?


rlballard wrote:Absolutely, I just published this on Thingiverse....
Keep in mind, this has not been fully tested to look for revision.
BB

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1554800

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Thu May 12, 2016 9:32 pm

Charles,
This was done in Simplfy 3D and I have had a similar issue between the two programs. The units are in inches not mm's that would make a significant difference. Let me know where I can help...
BB


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