Bed Leveling

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
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rlballard
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Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:31 pm

Enhanced education continues, laid out multiple parts taking up a large percentage of the bed, Not optimum layout but had plenty of room.
Filastruder.jpg


Started to print and found filament not sticking to the from portion of the bed where the grears are positions. Stopped the print, cleaned the bed and started again, results were the same, filament wouldn't lay down correctly. Stopped again and cleaned the bed, disabled the motors and began checking clearances. The front edge of the build plate and moving back just over 2" was 0.5 mm low, causing the problem.

Well so much for a level N2 bed not needing adjustment. I bought it back up to a 0.1 mm clearance between the bed and nozzle and everything is fine. I guess it is a lesson in not taking things for granted, however I wouldn't have know to check this a week ago if not for the feedback and guidance of the community.
Thanks again....
BB
Attachments
Layout 2.JPG
Layout 1.jpg

Zettlinger
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Zettlinger » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:49 pm

Hi Robert,

What delivery batch were you in ? (Does your machine have the nylon tipped screws yet?)

If in the first batches you have to check the screws before you level the bed since it might damage the heatbed

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:43 pm

I was in the March Delivery, Received the system 2-weeks ago. Not sure what to look for, here is a shot of the under carriage
Attachments
Bed 2.jpg
Bed 1.JPG

Zettlinger
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:01 am

https://www.raise3d.com/pages/heated-be ... nstruction

That wiki entry shows you which screws are involved.

Zettlinger
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:05 am

if they haven't been replaced you need to be very careful , basically do not level unless you are sure it has the right screws.

I am pretty sure the shipment send at the end of march has them already, yours was send in February i assume, so i am not sure it was changed already.

The main problem with the first batches was that some screws were sharp and cut the paper insulators and could potentially cause a short in the heated bed. Some even noticed the 'right' screws (not sharp) were still damaging the paper insulators

Zettlinger
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:07 am

All new batches have a redesigned heatbed that avoids the screws and nylon tipped screws to prevent scratching

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:21 am

Great input, thanks for the guidance, I have already made the adjustment and so far everything is ok. Do you know if they are sending replacement screws, thanks for the link by the way. The link says they are M5 but doesn't give the diameter or length but I can measure that.

Zettlinger
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:27 am

if you are not sure (or you are sure you need them) send a message to sales@raise3d.com they will be able to tell you if your shipment was adapted already and if not they will send you the screws (if you have an order for a V2 extruder or filament etc they will ship them together)


*edited email adres to contact from support to sales*

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:00 am

I contacted them right after you mentions the issue. I have order the V2 extruders as well. Thanks again for the help

rgriesbeck
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rgriesbeck » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:12 am

What I did in the meantime, was to put a couple layers of tape (I used blue painters) on the bottom of the glass in the areas that were low. Worked really good so far. I just got my extruder really close at the bed's highest point (centre for me) and then moved it around x&y by hand marking where it was low

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:43 pm

Great advice, however I already committed without the research into the problem. At this point I don't seem to have a problem with the heater, knock of wood. So I will just leave things for now and wait for Raise to get back to me. It is Monday there so I should hear something today. Thanks again for the advice and support...
BB

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Derek@Raise3D
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:31 pm

rlballard wrote:Great advice, however I already committed without the research into the problem. At this point I don't seem to have a problem with the heater, knock of wood. So I will just leave things for now and wait for Raise to get back to me. It is Monday there so I should hear something today. Thanks again for the advice and support...
BB

Since Batch 3, we enhanced the leveling standard from 0.25mm to 0.1mm tolerence. That would rock with most cases.
=================
Derek@Raise3D.com
I'm a lazy engineer. So I want everything automated.
Image

Zettlinger
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:38 pm

@Derek his question is more if Batch 3 was already fitted with the changed heatbed and/or the nylon tipped screws or was that implemented from Batch 4 ?

Andy Cohen
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:44 pm

Per the pic... BB has the fish paper which means he has the all metal lock screws. No nylon tips.

BTW... while we are on the subject... the nylon tips... what temp are they rated to??? I set my bed to 100C for some materials and overtime that would soften most nylon REAL easy. If I had the nylon tip lock screws my bed would go out of level.

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:05 am

Derek,
Zettlinger is correct, I am looking more at the hardware and the replacement rather than specification. It is great that you have raised your standard but I am looking for the fix with the screws so I don't damage the heater.

Thanks Andy and from what I can tell, your are correct. Just an FYI, most Nylon fasteners are using the Polyamide 6-6 which has a continuous service temperature of 140C so you are pretty safe...

Andy Cohen
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:42 pm

rlballard wrote:Derek,
Zettlinger is correct, I am looking more at the hardware and the replacement rather than specification. It is great that you have raised your standard but I am looking for the fix with the screws so I don't damage the heater.

Thanks Andy and from what I can tell, your are correct. Just an FYI, most Nylon fasteners are using the Polyamide 6-6 which has a continuous service temperature of 140C so you are pretty safe...

@BB
I replaced the 9 bolts that hold the bed down with 5 longer bolts and springs weeks ago. Rather then waiting for nylon tipped lock bolts I modded my bed so I can level it quickly and easily if and when I need to. It works perfectly. Nice and level all the time. BTW... the nylon tipped bolts, even if they never soften, do not address the unprotected exposed solder points nor the potential for binder clip shorts. Early N2 and N2+ owners probably will need to completely remove their beds and add protection for these areas as well as replace the sharp edged lock screws. Note, the replacement instructions tell you not to do that. The replacement instructions have you keep the 9 bolts in place as you replace the lock screws. So the exposed areas and the edges will remain unprotected. :oops:

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:22 am

Andy,
Thanks for the information, can you send along details of the mod, it sounds like a good idea.

Andy Cohen
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby Andy Cohen » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:58 pm

rlballard wrote:Andy,
Thanks for the information, can you send along details of the mod, it sounds like a good idea.

If you do decide to do this I would like you to contact me directly beforehand:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1409412
Let me know.

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rlballard
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby rlballard » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:23 am

Andy,
This is a sweet Mod and I think I will undertake this in the near future, it makes perfect sense and I like the point:

" I also can adjust bed height on the fly and not blind via the limit switch screw".

To that end, as far as the spring stabilizer and washer I am going to go with PTFE rather than PETG that close to the bed, less chance of issues at higher temperatures. If I use a glass filled PTFE it give me the ability to hit the upper end of the temperature range of the system with a continous service temperature of 288C. I will let you know before I undertake the project. I want to print out the components to get the right dimensions. Thanks for the information...
BB

gyro
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Re: Bed Leveling

Postby gyro » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:05 am

Here's a tip to aid the levelling with the new screws, wind in the first worm screw tipped or otherwise, move the printhead over the top of the screw, wind the worm screw until it just touches the nozzle, repeat with the rest of the screws this will have them all protruding the same amount relative to the nozzles.
In my case I replaced the fish paper with 1.5mm ply lasercut to the same shape as the paper insulators.

I also noted the the heated bed has a 0.93mm concave bow which I pressed out, as when the glass was clipped down to was bowing too not allowing a good first layer.
My next mod is to measure the sag of the rods that support the dual nozzle print head (I'm guessing about 0.2mm), a have some ground chromed linear 8mm rod that I intend bending by the same amount as the sag and replacing the originals, I'll let you know of it was worth the effort!

All the best Andrew@Gyro

http://www.gyro.co.nz
Thanks in advance
Andrew@Gyro

www.gyro.co.nz


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