What buildplate is commonly used?

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newraiseuser
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What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby newraiseuser » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:06 am

Hello, my post disappeared. I am posting it again.

I am considering to buy a N2/N2+. According to the specification, the printers come with a heated platform and there is something called Buildtak. What is that? Is it something to put on top of the heated platform? From the Spare Parts page, there is a "3D Print Build Surface" and a "High Temperature Build Plate". Are they included in the printer? Am I suppose to put either one on top of the heated platform? Somewhere I also read that some users use a glass build plate? Which is the recommended one to use? Thanks

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:03 am

The 3D Build Surface is buildtak. We stick it onto the High Temperature Build Plate which is a high borate glass board.
There has one Build Plate stuck with one Build Surface inside the origin package. Which means one side of the plate is with buildtak the other side is with glass surface.

newraiseuser
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby newraiseuser » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:33 am

Thanks. So, I only need to replace the buildtak? How often do I have to do it?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:46 am

It depends on the actual usage.
If damage the surface with scrape or other sharp tools when removing the model, then you will consider to replace the surface.
For oil and dust you can use wet cloth to wipe and water to clean the surface.

Rogman
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby Rogman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:40 pm

I went to local glass shop and bought 2 plates of glass (cost $4) and have used those from the beginning. I have one with Kapton tape and ABS slurry (ABS and acetone) for ABS prints and another plate with Elmers purple glue stick for PLA. I did not like the buildtak, that is just a personal preference. I use my printers in a university and they run almost 24/7 with no problems.

newraiseuser
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby newraiseuser » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:20 pm

Thanks Rogman for sharing your experience. How come you need to by plates of glass? Can I just put the Kapton tape or those blue tape sheet on top of the original High Temperature Build Plate (heated platform) which comes with the machine?

I am considering several printers so running cost is a factor. In my previous university, we used Stratasys uPrint SE. Although the manufacturer recommends using the buildplate only once, in practice it could be used for three times before it loses adhesiveness. How about the buildtak?
Since we need to change the buildplate often, running cost is expensive.

I have also used Makerbot 2. The dealer supplied some kind of blue tape sheets. The problem is that it is easy to break when the rafts were removed.

Rogman
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby Rogman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:35 pm

i bought the glass to use instead of the Borosilicate glass with the buildtak on it. The Borosilicate is better due to low thermal expansion. students don't really use a lot care or caution when removing things from build plate and the regular glass saves me money. i have 3 makerbots but they have been so heavily modded that they are now Rog-bots. :lol: you can bring the buildtak back with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol to clean it and yes you can just use the glass that came with it to put the Kapton or PVA glue on.

zemlin
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby zemlin » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:54 pm

I much prefer PEI to the BuildTak. I sometimes use Kapton for PLA or PETG. Either of those can be stuck down to the glass. Since the build area is 12x12 you can just get a sheet that size and locate it at the lower left corner of the glass. If your machine is a dual, you'll loose 25mm of coverage on the second nozzle, but that's not an issue for me. I use 3M 468MP adhesive sheet for the PEI.

newraiseuser
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby newraiseuser » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:20 pm

Thanks Rogman. Do you mean I can use the buildtak over and over with a wipe of isopropyl alcohol to clearn it? It won't lose adhesiveness? How many times can I use a sheet of buildtak before replacement?

Thanks zemlin. As far as I heard, although PLA also releases toxic particles, it is better than ABS in this regard.

So, shall I try BuildTak which comes with the machine first. If it does not work well, then try Kapton followed by PEI?

Timber Haint
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby Timber Haint » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:36 pm

Yes, the Buildtak is reusable, unless you damage it. Even then depending on where the damage is and what you're printing you can get around it for a bit. I only wipe it down with isopropyl alcohol every now and again to clean any contaminants off that might affect initial layer adhesion.

I would personally suggest (depending on what your printing with) to go ahead and try the BuildTak that comes with the machine. If you feel it doesn't work for you then investigate and invest in other solutions.

newraiseuser
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby newraiseuser » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:38 pm

Thanks Timber. I plan to print with PLA due to poor ventilation in my room.

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Michael.P@Raise3D
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby Michael.P@Raise3D » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:00 pm

In my experience (around 12 printers in the office running 24/7) we run with buildtak on about 8 of them at any given time. We rarely replace the buildtak because we take caution and round off corners of spatulas. The average length of use for a buildtak is solely based on how well an end user treats their build plate. One single sheet can last months if proper care is taken. Please keep in mind that the average running cost of the N-Series printers is going to be far from that of a U-Print.
Michael Petitclerc, Technician
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EldRick
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby EldRick » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:33 pm

On the other hand, Ultem PEI is harder and considerably less subject to damage than Buildtak, less costly, and sticks far better than Buildtak with most materials. Here's a source:
http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/3d- ... /ultem-pei

newraiseuser
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby newraiseuser » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:05 pm

Thanks Michael.P and

Thanks EldRick. Which thickness do you recommend? Any item number?

EldRick
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby EldRick » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:20 am

I bought .020" (.5mm). Thick enough to be durable, thin enough to be manageable. I got pieces the next size larger than the glass, aligned two of the edges and rolled it down, then used an xacto knife to score it at the edge of the glass, and broke off and sanded the edge.

By default, they supply it shiny-side up, adhesive down, which gives a mirror bottom on the pieces, but the ultem works better if you scuff up the surface with a green scotchbrite scrubber pad after installing on the glass. The microscopic scratches give some "tooth" to the surface, and improve the adhesion considerably, at the cost of a dulled bottom surface.

Fiesel
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby Fiesel » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:10 pm

My experience with buildtak is, you'll damage it often at the beginning and virtually never once you get accustomed to it.
However, if a printer is semipublic used by many people (university printer pool scenario..) people won't really care and damage the surface a lot.
In this case the buildtak FlexPlate solution is worth a look imho. Every student could buy/rent their own print plate which they only use by themselves and which can be checked for damage on return.

EldRick
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby EldRick » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:10 pm

The flexplate has a horrible design defect: if you pull the metal plate up (instead of sliding it off) while the bed is still hot, you will pull the magnets up 1/8" into the soft base material and permanently deform it to the point where it cannot ever be used again. Go ahead - ask me how I know this to be true...

IMHO, the Buildtak flexplate would be highly unsuitable for a publicly-accessible printer.
Last edited by EldRick on Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

newraiseuser
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby newraiseuser » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:15 am

EldRick wrote:The flexplate has a horrible design defect: if you pull the petal plate up (instead of sliding it off) while the bed is still hot, you will pull the magnets up 1/8" into the soft base material and permanently deform it to the point where it cannot ever be used again. Go ahead - ask me how I know this to be true...

IMHO, the Buildtak flexplate would be highly unsuitable for a publicly-accessible printer.


Thanks for the warning. Which petal plate are you talking about? Any photo?

FreedomRules
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby FreedomRules » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:14 am

I had no issues with the stock Buildtak but just installed some Geckotek EZ-Stik Hot. Both stick very good only difference I noticed so far is it seems the pieces release easier off the Geckotek. I haven't printed a tall piece on the Geckotek to test if the part would break loose before completion. From how hard the part sticks before it cools down I don't think it would come off. After it cools down the part does release easier. A side note either pro or con dependent upon your taste is the bottom of the part is almost glass smooth on the Geckotek but I did read you could lightly sand it to roughen it up.

EldRick
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Re: What buildplate is commonly used?

Postby EldRick » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:11 pm

"Which petal plate are you talking about?"
Sorry - I meant the flexible removable Metal plate with the buildtak on it. (Petal corrected to metal above.)


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