3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
Jetguy
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Postby Jetguy » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:37 pm

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Julia Truchsess
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Julia Truchsess » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:48 pm

Obviously the drive must never slip or skips steps; if this happens it will be immediately apparent as gaps in the print. I've been happily and productively printing for 4+ years and have never calibrated filament diameter or touched an extrusion multiplier, and I've used a lot of different materials. Of course, everyone has their own standard of what constitutes acceptable print quality, and their own level of obsessiveness in tweaking parameters.

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rlballard
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby rlballard » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:37 pm

Great input on the trials, thanks very much for the guidance from Julia and Jetguy. The guide presented was right on task of what I was looking for and will make a huge difference, which I will post updates on. I have a lot of years of experience in polymer extrusion however this is a little shift in the application thought process. Taking the advice presented, MeltInk's process capability with the PLA/PHA is exceptionally low (.27) based on the range of diameter swing, 1.68 to 1.75 and mostly on the low side. So the first point, on average they are out of specification. This is based on an 18" sample length however enough to change quality.... I've enclosed the calibration block picss which in general are very good, one view shows just a slight concave, light under the razor blade, that is correctable with a 1% increase. Thanks for the information, I will continue to post results...

The Black PLA shows a very consistent diameter and easy to process at 215 degrees. Calibration block finished dimensions:
- 20.35
- 20.38
- 10.47

So with this I am very pleased, thanks again..
Attachments
Cal Block Concave Meltink PLA.jpg
Cal Block 3 Meltink PLA.jpg
Cal Block 2 Meltink PLA.jpg
Cal Block 1 Meltink PLA.jpg

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rlballard
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby rlballard » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:44 pm

You guys are great, between the mods and software input your advice is invaluable and so much appreciated...

Jetguy
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Julia Truchsess
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Julia Truchsess » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:59 am

One thing I've noticed with Meltink's filament is that it has huge die swell - it looks like it's coming out of a 0.8mm nozzle! I'm amazed that it ends up making such beautiful prints, but it does. I was told by someone quite knowledgeable in the ways of polymers that large die swell is indicative of high filler content, which I guess makes sense, since my favorite Meltink filaments are their metallics, but I've seen the die swell in their standard colors as well. I don't really care - whatever works! :)

Matthew Lozano
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Matthew Lozano » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:44 am

Been doing some more testing with my filament stock and managed to get some prints out by adding shims under the extruder motor as mentioned by R3D, it looks like every 0.25mm shim I add under the side of the motor the idler bearing will move the gear about 0.1mm closer to the idler gear. I used two shims under the motor for a total of 0.5mm. I used 0.25mm copper clad fiberglass as spacers but I'm sure any any dimensionally stable and heat resistant material can be used.
20160326_160627.jpg

20160326_161035.jpg

20160326_160816.jpg



White/clear is Esun PETG, Gray is MattherHackers brand PLA, blue is PLA unknown brand that came with my Craftbot.
Before this mod I was not able to get any none R3D plastics to print. As you can see all three types of plastic managed to print but all had a jam at the smoke stack due to the lower flow rate at that point, this type of jam should be fixed with V2 Hotend.
20160326_211432.jpg

20160326_211303.jpg


I'm looking forward to the V2 hotend, as once installed I suspect most filaments should run great combined with this mod.

Zettlinger
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:13 am

If all goes well i should have a set of V2 Hotends to play with at the end of the week / next weekend .....

I will have to check if they already have some heat deflection on my printer or if i have to go pack up my hotends in insulation.
As Jetguy mentioned the minimum layertime that would fix the smokestack wont work well if the hotend and nozzle hoover over the same spot that needs to be cooled

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Derek@Raise3D
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:02 pm

Zettlinger wrote:If all goes well i should have a set of V2 Hotends to play with at the end of the week / next weekend .....

I will have to check if they already have some heat deflection on my printer or if i have to go pack up my hotends in insulation.
As Jetguy mentioned the minimum layertime that would fix the smokestack wont work well if the hotend and nozzle hoover over the same spot that needs to be cooled


Packup your hotend in insulation. Then you can go up to 350C. :ugeek: :ugeek: Please forget that, I didn't say anything!
=================
Derek@Raise3D.com
I'm a lazy engineer. So I want everything automated.
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Zettlinger
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:41 pm

@Derek Not mentioning 350... :0) but is there a thermal shutoff temp (software max) build in like on the heatbed (@120C degrees) and if so what is that safety limit at?

Jetguy
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Postby Jetguy » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:40 pm

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Zettlinger
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Zettlinger » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:34 pm

Thank you for the info Jetguy. So its fairly easy to increase the cap if ever needed
Although i think 320 Celsius should be more then enough for anything i can imagine right now that i would like to print with

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rlballard
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby rlballard » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:23 pm

Ok, since I am the new guy here, how do you access the firmware on the printer?

Jetguy
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Postby Jetguy » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:48 pm

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Duplicat
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Duplicat » Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:32 am

Thx Jetguy. (for me) That little bit of info just connected a lot a loose pieces to this puzzle of understanding how firmware is edited.
(one small step at a time) (so much homework, still to do) :geek:

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rlballard
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby rlballard » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:49 pm

Update on filament trials:
Thanks to everyone's input, additional research and gaining a better understanding of the software and the impact of variable on the process, I have over come some of the processing obstacles. I am becoming a fan of Simplify 3D software and their input into compatibility setting with the Raise3D system. The last input was based on identical sliced models for comparison:

Hi Robert,
Thank you for your reply. Can you send me a G-Code generated by their software for a dual extrusion print and a factory file that you have set up for dual extrusion in Simplify3D? I'd be happy to look and see if I can find what they're doing differently that we can add to your Simplify3D profile.


Response:
The first layer in the monoprice software is being printed at 0.5mm layer height. I'd suggest increasing your first layer height from the layer tab to 167%.


Everything works very well at this point. The issues experienced previously, MeltInk PLA/PHA, were not all temperature based, as Jetguy points out, extrusion speed was a key factor in delivering consistency and eliminating filament grinding. Lowering temperatures slowing own the process and tweaking some of the other variables (Nozzle clearance, bed temperature, filament size and density, offset, support resolution and density, etc.) have delivered successful prints as seen below. I am continuing to gain confidence, experience and an appreciation for the level of quality this system delivers.

Although it has been two weeks since I received my N2, I have done a significant amount of cramming with some extremely late nights, learning 3 different software packages, understanding the mechanics and setup of the printer, the polymer side and working a real job; I feel the learning curve is starting to ease up somewhat.

Thank you all for your continued input and invaluable support...
BB
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Planetary.jpg

Andy Cohen
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Andy Cohen » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:09 pm

The V1 curse has finally reared it's head on my N2. I now see what others are seeing. I used Prototype Supply Black PLA from Toybuilders.com. However, I have been seeing this behavior with Raise3D PLA as well.
Basically it is over extruding or perhaps overflowing or over pressured (?). The stuff is flowing out faster or in a higher qty then it is supposed to. The stuff then crowds in a bottleneck along the extrusion path way to the nozzle opening. You should hear the stepper start to miss steps and it will happen when the extruder is on a very tight toolpath as in a high infill % win a thin wall. The result is the telltale bulb at the end of the removed filament.

IMO V1 is not at usable in real working contexts and V2 is a FIX not an enhancement.

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rlballard
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby rlballard » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:22 pm

Andy,
Here is where I would start, and take it for what it is worth, based on feedback and input received.
- Check filament diameter and input the average into the slicer
- Enter appropriate density, PLA 1.2 - 1.4
- Lower extrusion pressure, I backed off printing speeds initially to 30 mm/s
- Look at the perimeter and determine feed rate. Somewhere between 15-30mm for outside perimeter is a happy spot
- Run the 20mm calibration block as you tweak settings
- Based on polymer experience, not everything is from Natureworks, melt flow characteristics can and do change. When you look at the processing window, 190-235°C, it can demonstrate a sharp melting behavior in a narrow temperature window. The true viscosity of PLA decreases sharply with increasing temperature (Molasses to Water). PLA is a great material to modify as it is compatible with a variety of materials to offer cost-performance benefits. This brings about a new series of patience testing trials....

Again, just my thoughts...
BB

Andy Cohen
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby Andy Cohen » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:51 pm

@BB
What other 3D Printers do you have???
I think you misunderstand. I've had some success tuning and tweaking on my own. But what i see is NOT something that should be within the envelope of normal operations. It is another design defect. Subtle and harder to see then the others, but IMO a defect nonetheless.
I have nine other machines which all run with any filament i throw in them for any object I have them print. No special tuning required between spools beyond diameter measurement and temp.

I'm sure fanboys will be unhappy with my opinions on this. I really do not care. There is too much of simply going along with Raise3D here and not enough questioning or complaint. V2 should be a FREE FIX. That is... if V2 actually works! We do not know beyond what John and Derek post and their test prints are always those which seem to work perfectly. Simple cohesive statues. They need to test thin walled, hollow objects with dense infill. Crowd the extrusion.

LonV
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Re: 3rd Party Filament Trials and Tribulations

Postby LonV » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:03 pm

Andy, I agree the V2 should be a "fix" and not an "upgrade". However, I'm comfortable with what I paid for the printer +$100 for 2 new hotends (and still think it was a good deal).


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