What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
DreamForge
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 am

What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby DreamForge » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:09 pm

For this print it is not so crucial as I intended to do some cleanup and primer work but I would love to identify the issue and fix it.

At first I thought it was Z wobble as the frequency matches the Z screw pitch, until I looked at the back of the print, which is not displaying the same Z wobble characteristics… may still be Z wobble but it manifests only at the front of the print and starts just forward of the Z screw and is far worse on the front left of the build table where the home position is located.

When the print walls straightened up a bit, the right side cleared up, this is most evident in the fourth shot, 'right front build table' but the left front shows the same wobble to a lesser extent than the lower portion.
Although you cannot see it the bottom 2" are great, no wobble...

Have a look, let me know your thoughts and if you have a way to fix this for future prints… I would hate to be stuck using only the rear portion of my build table :roll:
Attachments
rear-inside.jpg
Rear of print inside
right-side-front.jpg
Front right side
Right-rear-build-table.jpg
Rear right side
Right-front-build-table.jpg
Right front build table
front-left-of-build-table.jpg
Left front build table

DreamForge
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby DreamForge » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:24 pm

I doubt my settings have anything to do with this, but just for a complete picture, I will post them.

I am printing with Esun PETG and the settings seem to be fine, no stringing. Where the wobble is not present the print looks good.

I actually needed to tune some of these settings on the display most notably the left nozzle feed rate is 73%. I am running the new hard nozzles and it seems to either have a larger orifice or simply feeds faster?
Attachments
5.JPG
2.JPG
3.JPG
4.JPG
1.JPG

Evan
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby Evan » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:23 pm

Maybe there's too much tension from the filament being fed to the extruder as the head move further away from the spool.

User avatar
John@Raise3D
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:42 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby John@Raise3D » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:14 am

Please check my response in the ticket you created.

DreamForge
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby DreamForge » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:06 am

Evan wrote:Maybe there's too much tension from the filament being fed to the extruder as the head move further away from the spool.


Yeah I looked at that as well, I oiled up the spool spindle and could not find the same issue with the back left quadrant of the print. I would assume it would also exhibit the same problem. That and it looks to have a repeating pattern that pretty closely matched the Z axis screw.

DreamForge
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby DreamForge » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:00 am

I am beginning to think this is a Y axis wobble. Would the belt be the culprit?

But what I find strange is that the wobble only shows forward of the Z screw and the closer it gets to the front door, the termination of the Y, the worse the wobble and the more scattered the pattern.

The upper right side continues to build without issue but the upper left is having problems with wobble and the center section is the closest to the Y termination and has the worst defects.
Attachments
3.jpg
4.jpg
1.jpg
2.jpg

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6464
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:00 am

Did you find such problem before?
Did you do some modifies before you first found this problem?

Some parts need to be checked.

1. Belts
Check the tension of four X Y belts are the same.
1.png

2.png


2. Screws.
There should be one convex screw at the side of sliding block which is used to fixing the crossing rod. One screw at X side and one at the Y side. Loosen them a little. Then tighten the screw by hand.
3.png
3.png (237.93 KiB) Viewed 4706 times


There should be four screws at the bottom side of the sliding blocks and two at the top. Do not loosen them, just tighten them.
4.png


3. Pulleys
Check whether the pulleys and its location limited pillars are loose.
5.png

theRenegade
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 11:58 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby theRenegade » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:46 pm

Very interesting filament feed and a very dirty printer Vicky! 8-)

theRenegade
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 11:58 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby theRenegade » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:50 pm

Oh, and you use also the standard BT sheets (cheaper) :lol:

DreamForge
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby DreamForge » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:37 pm

Thanks Vicky, once this print stops I will give everything the once over.

I have not had this problem before but I have never printed that close to the door, so it is quite possible it never poked its head up until now.

No machine changed on my end but I have printed a few very long jobs recently, if something was a bit loose it may have worked its way out of alignment.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6464
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:46 am

DreamForge wrote:Thanks Vicky, once this print stops I will give everything the once over.

I have not had this problem before but I have never printed that close to the door, so it is quite possible it never poked its head up until now.

No machine changed on my end but I have printed a few very long jobs recently, if something was a bit loose it may have worked its way out of alignment.


Waiting for your result. Maybe some screws went too tight (convex ones) or too loose.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6464
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:47 am

theRenegade wrote:Very interesting filament feed and a very dirty printer Vicky! 8-)

Oh, and you use also the standard BT sheets (cheaper) :lol:



That's a very very very old engineering sample machine in our office. We have used it for a very long time. ;)

Zettlinger
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby Zettlinger » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:41 am

Always good to see a machine in a working enviroment. And it shows how robust it is if it is still printing ;)

theRenegade
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 11:58 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby theRenegade » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:05 pm

Yeah, printing for years now and that's also a good explanation for the dirt... 8-)

loddie
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:19 pm

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby loddie » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:27 pm

If the OP is still experiencing this problem, watch the X and Y rods while printing. Specifically watch their rotation from overhead. If the rods are bent, you will see them wobble from side to side during rotation and it will cause the hot end to slightly shift from the desired position while printing. It will be random, but more pronounced the closer the print is to the bent axis rod.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6464
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:55 am

DreamForge wrote:Thanks Vicky, once this print stops I will give everything the once over.

I have not had this problem before but I have never printed that close to the door, so it is quite possible it never poked its head up until now.

No machine changed on my end but I have printed a few very long jobs recently, if something was a bit loose it may have worked its way out of alignment.


Hi,

How is the printer going now? Still having wobble problem?

DreamForge
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby DreamForge » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:48 am

Hi Vicky,

I am not sure yet I have not been running a large print since my last message. I will be doing one soon. I could not completely comply with step #2 both the right and rear slide block have too much resistance in the screw that holds the cross rod to be able to manipulate it by hand. I can turn them with the wench but there is no way to 'feel' if it has hit home by hand turning the screw.

How should I proceed?

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6464
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:31 pm

Loosen the screws first. Then tighten them by hand. Stop tightening when you feel resistance from the rods.

DreamForge
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby DreamForge » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:50 pm

Hi Vicky, yes, I understood the instructions but what I was trying to say was that two of the screws could not be turned by hand, even after being total backed out. Seems there is a thread lock material on the left Y axis and front X axis.

4.jpg
end where rod was not secure


I did find one issue the left hand Y axis was not secured properly, the screw that holds the bar was bottomed out, it seemed odd to me so I backed out both sides enough to slide the bar into place where it was supposed to be so that both screws on the Y, left and right could be tightened against the support rod. I did note that that Y axis rod that runs through the print head, is slightly bent, as I spin it I can feel a resistance when turned. I hand tightened the screw after turning the Y axis rod to where it felt tight when I spun it and ran a test print. The belt would slip on the far left corner when printing... I then turned the rod to the point I felt no resistance and tightened the screw and was able to print again without the belt slip. This confirmed that the rod that runs through the print head was indeed bent to some extent.

With the rod in the more slack or relaxed rotation, this seemed to partially help but I am still experiencing the same wobble in the print. You can see the comparison between the Jun 16th images and these that there is a slight improvement but obviously there is still an issue.

2.jpg

3.jpg

1.jpg


So, what do we do next?

User avatar
John@Raise3D
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:42 am

Re: What the heck is causing this and how do I fix it?

Postby John@Raise3D » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:52 am

Yes, we have thread glue there. If you have a hot air gun, you can heat up the screw a little bit to loose it.


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests