Pro3 printing quality (Ringing or ghosting, rippling)

[GT40]

Hi!

I have a new Pro3 and it has problems with the printing quality. The parts have ringing, especially with speeds higher than 40 mm/s.
Ringing appears on different materials and not only on curved surfaces but also on flat ones.

Here you can see a part that was printed by PLA (BASF PRO1) with an outer shell speed of 40 mm/s. The quality of an STL is 0.5 deg for angle and 0.01 for lines.

Is there are any solutions? Thanks for any help.

[Labirynt]

Is there are any solutions? Thanks for any help.

Yes - you need to buy a different brand printer

[ZombiePach]

Hello. I know your pain. The issue goes back as far as Raise. Customer support has little constructive advice besides “slow down”. From what I can gather it’s an issue inherent in the design of any coreXY printer. This seems to come up nearly bi-weekly lately so a quick search for “ringing” and “ghosting” will give you hours of reading as far back as 2017/2018 ish. I purchased the Hyper upgrade primarily hoping the accelerometer tuning would help. It does not. It made no improvement in ghosting/ringing on my machine.
Good luck.

[GT40]

ZombiePach, thank you for the reply and feedback about the Hyper Speed upgrade because I am also considering buying this one.

So, as said Labirynt - there is one solution - "to buy a different brand printer"

[ZombiePach]

Sadly, yes. If your biggest concern is surface quality devoid of ghosting or ringing, you might try another printer design. Even the Ultimaker S5 suffers the effect…unless it’s slowed to a painful speed. Even Bambu’s golden child reports similar issues. Again, all essentially corexy. They all have their limiting factors. At least in any platform I can afford:-).

[Matthias1982]

Well.... these printers aren't core XY, and I doubt that these are problems from the printers themselves, it is the slicing as the Slicers doesnt use G2/G3 GCode Commands. So every curve is just an adding up on short lines, where evertime the printer gets a new command for each segment, also the extruder. so perhaps something like tuning in linear/pressure advance can reduce this kind of artefact. Or the support from slicer, firmware and steppers for G2 commands.... so that it gets one smooth line.

for the ringing / ghosting on the straight lines yes the Hyperspeed Upgrade with input shaping helps a little bit. but you can not filter out every single vibration because small details would be detected as "ghosting" and would then also be filtered and smoothed. I think that is also why the Raise3D input shaping works so "low". because of the texture functinality of Ideamaker... otherwise this function doesnt make any sense as it would get smoothed out.

[ZombiePach]

Well.... these printers aren't core XY, and I doubt that these are problems from the printers themselves, it is the slicing as the Slicers doesnt use G2/G3 GCode Commands. So every curve is just an adding up on short lines, where evertime the printer gets a new command for each segment, also the extruder. so perhaps something like tuning in linear/pressure advance can reduce this kind of artefact. Or the support from slicer, firmware and steppers for G2 commands.... so that it gets one smooth line.

for the ringing / ghosting on the straight lines yes the Hyperspeed Upgrade with input shaping helps a little bit. but you can not filter out every single vibration because small details would be detected as "ghosting" and would then also be filtered and smoothed. I think that is also why the Raise3D input shaping works so "low". because of the texture functinality of Ideamaker... otherwise this function doesnt make any sense as it would get smoothed out.

Could you explain why these aren’t essentially corexy? I’ve always struggled with the delineation. It’s been documented on this forum as far back as 2016 and even more so on the N2’s and Pro models. Long rods, heavy dual extruder print heads, tolerance, velocity, etc etc.

Edit: I think I’ve finally figured it out. Raise3D seems to use a XY gantry or “Ultimaker style” gantry. It looks like a crosshair from the top with the extra bar that goes perpendicular to X axis bar. They cross at the center on the printhead. A corexy doesn’t have that Y axis rod. But again, the root issue seems to be the same. Again, not my conclusion, just my recollection of discussions going way back about this same issue which were a result of searching here for ringing/ghosting. The same issue presents itself on the Ultimaker forums as well, and they aren’t using IdeaMaker.

[Matthias1982]

Core XY has only 2 rods for Y and only 1 for X Axis, so 3 instead of 6 as on Raise3d or Ultimakers. Less moving mass, less ringing/ghosting. Linear Rails and so on possible instead of only rotating rods... if only one motor is moving the Printhead moves in a 45° angle.

Downside, longer and more complicated belt routing.

You do not get a 100% definition on CoreXY, somewhere it says a coreXY machine has stationary motor placement (motors are not moving with any axis). that is also the case for the Raise and Ultimaker. But if you search for CoreXY Belt routing...

Don't know what the mechanism of Raise3D/Ultimaker and so on is called then...

Oh, and the Printhead is, even if it is dual extruder, very lightweight for its size. the extruder motors are small (I think Nema11) with a big gear wheel. the Other parts are aluminium and plastic so not that heavy.

[GT40]

So every curve is just an adding up on short lines, where evertime the printer gets a new command for each segment, also the extruder. so perhaps something like tuning in linear/pressure advance can reduce this kind of artefact.

My "Minimal Segment Length" is 0.005 mm, so is too small and doesn't affect the printing quality. These defects are provided by vibrations.