Initial Tuning

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Wed May 04, 2016 2:28 am

So I just got my printer and ran a couple calibration cubes. I banged my head on the wall a few times, then I found the temperature settings.

So I printed the calibration cube and on my second print
220C / 60C
3 shells
Everything else default high quality PLA settings

It came out at 20.05mm on one end and 20.16-20.19 on the other. Height was between 9.99 and 10.05, so I'm happy with 2 out of 3.

My question is, how can I dial in that one off axis? Obviously next print I'll pay attention to which exact axis it is.

Next, the print came out a little off visually too.
By the base, there's some weird rippling layers
The edges aren't truly vertical, they have some bow to them, and that little strand at the top (I'm assuming that part can maybe be take care of with retraction?).

Side note: I'd also appreciate some help to find out why my pictures got uploaded upside down when they appear rightside up in the finder.
Attachments
IMG_1339.JPG
Little top strand, and you can see the imperfection of the Z axis.
IMG_1341.JPG
Strange rippling in the early layers.

Andy Cohen
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby Andy Cohen » Wed May 04, 2016 2:36 am

The rippling could easily be from the infill. Print one with no top and no infill. An empty box.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6925
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed May 04, 2016 3:15 am

AR_LA wrote:So I just got my printer and ran a couple calibration cubes. I banged my head on the wall a few times, then I found the temperature settings.

So I printed the calibration cube and on my second print
220C / 60C
3 shells
Everything else default high quality PLA settings

It came out at 20.05mm on one end and 20.16-20.19 on the other. Height was between 9.99 and 10.05, so I'm happy with 2 out of 3.

My question is, how can I dial in that one off axis? Obviously next print I'll pay attention to which exact axis it is.

Next, the print came out a little off visually too.
By the base, there's some weird rippling layers
The edges aren't truly vertical, they have some bow to them, and that little strand at the top (I'm assuming that part can maybe be take care of with retraction?).

Side note: I'd also appreciate some help to find out why my pictures got uploaded upside down when they appear rightside up in the finder.


Which printer type did you choose? N2 or N2-V2 hot end?
You can check the compensation of X and Y in "printer settings". Since your print is a little over-size in one direction, you can decrease the compensation of X-axis or Y-axis (not sure which direction is over size on yours) by scale. Choose the printer type you using for slicing, the input the compensation to find the best value for your printer.
Attachments
20160504111201.png

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Wed May 04, 2016 5:22 am

So I found the settings, and Y was set to 100.25%. Odd, but I'll set to 100 and run the tests again tomorrow and try the empty shell.

If infill is causing the funky layering, would increasing shells to like 10 help?

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6925
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed May 04, 2016 6:25 am

In some cases we met before, the Y direction sometimes has a little under-size. So we preset Y compensation 0.25% more than default in this version. But it won't be seen in printer template of those who has used ideaMaker before. Because we cannot identify whether they has edited any setting in template or not. Only when you are first time install ideaMaker, you can find this preset.

Increasing the shell quantity will increase the rigidity of outer shells.

Zettlinger
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby Zettlinger » Wed May 04, 2016 1:52 pm

Ohhh that might explain some stuff :)

i changed versions before i looked at the settings so i will not see the initial calibration settings you put in from the factory ?

@AR_LA the weird rippling layers might have to do with distance from nozzle to bed too, i noticed when i set it a fraction too low it will squirt it out and if you look carefully see that it lifts a tiny bit due to the extra pressure before it settles. in this time it also cools a bit and does not end up completely straight on your bed.
If the diff is small it will print the rest fine as it will take the proper distance eventually to deposit properly but the first layers will be messy

try slowly increasing first layer height by 0,01 - 0,05 and see if it improves

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Wed May 04, 2016 5:07 pm

You mean the beginning of the print layers are too thick, and basically creates over pressure for lack of a better term? That makes sense because I set my height to a piece of paper on the corner of the plate, and the default setting is a first layer of .3.

I got some feeler gauges today so I'm going to try re setting my height in the middle and bring first layer down to .2mm or .1mm.

Thanks for the direction guys.

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Wed May 04, 2016 10:00 pm

I tuned the z-gap in the middle of the plate. flipped it around so I'm printing on glass only (too many variables, I know).

It took a couple tries, but now I'm using glue stick, preheating the bed for about 10-15 minutes and it looks like I got good adhesion.

.2mm first layer height
.1mm layers
220C temp
60C bed
10% infill
4 shells

My first layer(s) again look a little off, but it's going smooth and straight so far. I'll know soon enough.

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Wed May 04, 2016 10:51 pm

Print finished.

X axis is about .1mm oversized, I'll try scaling down .25%
Y axis, after bringing it down to 100% is from +0 to +.05mm so I'm happy there.
Bottom layer is a little undersized, and theres a small divot where the print started. I used a skirt, so i feel like it should have been more smooth.
IMG_1342.JPG
It's hard to see clearly, but the bottom layer appears undersized... again, upside down.


Edit: Ran it again after adjusting.
OK, X and Y are now on, but Z went to 10.3mm.
Front corners are bending up, and it really looks like that first layer is a totally different material, it's shaped differently, has some concavity to it, it's pretty odd.

User avatar
Julia Truchsess
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:30 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby Julia Truchsess » Thu May 05, 2016 1:19 am

Are you rotating your photos in Preview, or in your phone? I've noticed in the past that rotations done in Preview are not always respected by other programs once out of the Mac ecosystem, maybe it's done with metadata rather than moving pixels around. Rotation in Photoshop seems to always stick.

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Thu May 05, 2016 1:30 am

I've been just downloading from iCloud since my computer is old enough to not accept airdrop from a phone. But I'm just taking screenshots now, because It takes too long to go into photoshop, and I'm not that invested in it right now... Apple really needs to update their MacBook Pro line so I can join the 20-teens.

OK, here are a couple new pictures.

First one shows the 2 corners that lift up.

Second one, I paused during the first layer. To my completely untrained eye, it looks like... not ideal.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2016-05-04 at 6.23.24 PM.png
Screen Shot 2016-05-04 at 6.22.51 PM.png

User avatar
walshlg
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby walshlg » Thu May 05, 2016 2:07 am

I see the lift.
FWIW
Did you clean the bed with alcohol before each print?
TRy upping the bed temperature
Z may be adjusted a bit too high now
first layer settings? may be too thick or even underextruding

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Thu May 05, 2016 2:21 am

I've actually been washing (scrubbing) with soap and warm water then drying with microfiber.
Bed temp is at 60, and I've been letting it preheat before starting the print too, up more?
My Z-gap is between .1 and .2. I feel a little bit of drag on my .1mm feeler gauge, and the .2 won't fit. What's a good z-gap to start with?

My first layer is .2, at 15mm/s I believe. fan at 0 for the first layer, 100 after that.

It doesn't look like theres any overlap in the lines.

Im not sure how to adjust the overlap, is it just increasing extrusion if my z-gap is ideal?

User avatar
walshlg
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby walshlg » Thu May 05, 2016 2:25 am

hmm it appears to be underextruding some. If you have a cleaning wire run it up and down the heated hotend (I found cut off bits of wire strands inside another companies brand new extruder once). Next try increasing the extrusion to 105%

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 6925
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu May 05, 2016 3:06 am

Zettlinger wrote:Ohhh that might explain some stuff :)

i changed versions before i looked at the settings so i will not see the initial calibration settings you put in from the factory ?

@AR_LA the weird rippling layers might have to do with distance from nozzle to bed too, i noticed when i set it a fraction too low it will squirt it out and if you look carefully see that it lifts a tiny bit due to the extra pressure before it settles. in this time it also cools a bit and does not end up completely straight on your bed.
If the diff is small it will print the rest fine as it will take the proper distance eventually to deposit properly but the first layers will be messy

try slowly increasing first layer height by 0,01 - 0,05 and see if it improves


We preset Y compensation in ideaMaker version 2.1.6.110. But as long as you have installed any old version of ideaMaker on your computer before, the preset is not available to you.

Zettlinger
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am
Location: Roosendaal, Netherlands

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby Zettlinger » Thu May 05, 2016 11:28 am

Thank you for explaining Vicky

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Thu May 05, 2016 2:28 pm

Ok, this probably isn't going to be as smooth as if originally hoped.

The picture of the first layer is when I switched back to the buildtak side. After that picture I tried reducing retraction from 2mm to 1.5mm. The resulting block had a nice sharp, rigid string of pla coming off the top that wasn't there on the previous attempts at 2mm. But it did stop my first layers from unraveling. However, the first layer still looks undersized like previous attempts.

The other problem is now my X measurement went from 20.1+mm to roughly 19.85-19.9mm and all I did was switch from glass to buildtak (flip the plate).

Z measurement went from 10.3mm to 10.1mm

Neither glass w/ glue, nor buildtak had adhesion issues; meaning I couldn't simply lift off the cube. I actually had to use warm water and a light tap.

I'm probably going to try from step 1 of the reprap wiki. Does anyone have another good resource for setting up and initial calibration?

User avatar
walshlg
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby walshlg » Thu May 05, 2016 2:35 pm

One thing worth checking is the actual extrusion calibration:
after loading and warming and purging head, measure up from the filament inlet to cold end and mark with a sharpie 4 and 14 cm. Then extrude 10cm of filament and measure how high your second mark is above the cold end inlet, it should be 4cm.

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Thu May 05, 2016 3:15 pm

I don't know how to tell the extruder to simply extrude Xmm, but I'll look through it all when I get back home in a few hours. Hopefully I won't have to slice 10cm worth of volume.
That seems like a good first step

The lack of documentation, and inability to search the old forums is frustrating because I know a lot of basic troubleshooting and set up was taken care of back when people got the first couple batches.

AR_LA
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: Initial Tuning

Postby AR_LA » Thu May 05, 2016 8:55 pm

Started over. Reset all defaults to high quality PLA.
Then changed first layer to .2mm
Bed temp to 60
extruder temp default 205

Came out OK. back to the rippling in the early layers, and general unevenness along the Z axis that may or may not be normal. Top was a bit bubbly at 5 layers.

So I slowed down to 50mm/s, made top and bottom shells 8 layers. Top and bottom look better. Bottom is oversized both X and Y axis by about .2mm

Rippling... or "turbulence" appears to start after a half dozen or so decent layers, lasts for another few layers, then levels out. From there up there's just some general unevenness.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2016-05-05 at 1.45.11 PM.png
Screen Shot 2016-05-05 at 1.44.49 PM.png


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests