New issues I am getting

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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:13 pm

New issues I am getting

Postby GEGE » Fri May 08, 2020 5:43 pm

Hello to the community

I am writing here because I become desperate with what seems to be Heat Creep issues.

I have a N2 Dual, used 95% of the time in single extruder (Left one).

I used for 2 years now a Bondtech extruder which works quite good.

I am printing parts in Formfutura ASA for some month now, the same parts over and over again, without any issues with a change of nozzle from time to time. Printing time is about 4.5h. Extruder set at 255°C and Heat-bed at 95°, fully closed enclosure, both fans at 100%.

Suddenly last week, I started to have voids in layers depositions with a crunching noise coming for the extruder, in the beginning the gaps were small then became longer and longer.

I thought the Bondtech extruder had a problem so I disassembled it all, and cleaned the 4 filament driving gears, to be sure the slippage was not coming from dirty gears. I re-assembled everything and all went well for ......... 2 parts

I contacted the Bondtech support and an helpful guy told me that the issue is probably from Heat creep.

I changed all the heat-block by a new one, , same result after a few parts.

What i don't understand is why that during a year of printing of the same parts I never had such issues and now they happen all the time !!!

For some days now the temperature went up a lot, could it be the reason ?

If I improve the fan flow on the radiators will it help ? solve the problem ?

I have already made, since I bought the printer 3 years ago, a better air concentrator so all the fan flow gets onto the heat radiator using the 35mm original fan; I have totally removed the down blow channel, all the Air from the fan goes onto the heat sink.

I the past 2 days I made some new parts to be able to install a 4020 fan which blows more air but it doesn't seem to make a difference, I still get many lack of filament deposition together with grinding noise.

I read here that some of you made a water-cooling system to replace the aluminium radiator, any idea if these can be found somewhere ? for the water recirculation system it's not a problem it's the parts to go on the hot-end itself I couldn't find.

On the circuit board where the fan are plugged there are 2 plugs labelled FAN 0 and FAN 1, any idea where these can be activated ? I could plug some additional fans there.

Hopefully some of you could have some idea to help me to solve this problem


Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New issues I am getting

Postby Markus64 » Sun May 10, 2020 8:35 pm

Hi GEGE, I very much regret the annoyance and all the negative experiences you have to go through at the moment. In the thread with water cooling, two CAD files of the heat exchangers are available for free download. One version is from mdana, the second version from me. The cooling system itself would be safe to use, with the heat exchangers we have designed, I am not sure whether these also fit 1: 1 on your N2 printer. If they don't fit, our CAD files could be modified so that they can be installed.

What surprises me is that it worked before and no longer.

If your problem is actually heat creep, liquid cooling would be the only true option for you. I hope for you the helpfulness of an N2 owner who will adapt our CAD data accordingly for this device.

Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: New issues I am getting

Postby GEGE » Wed May 13, 2020 6:52 pm

Hi Markus,

After trying many things on the left extruder, new air concentrators..... I decided to give a try at the right extruder, which I never use , most of my printing being single colour or designed to be printable without the need of supports.I keep an extruder on the right side but without a nozzle on so I am sure it doesn't rub against the part just being printed

First run, perfect as well as the next ones !!!!!

I think that the issue is just that the Bondtech gears teeth pushing the filament are worn out without enough grip to push the filaments. I will order a set to replace them and see how if it was really the problem.

As I made many new trials with newly designed fan flow concentrators, I decided to install the best I made :
- Uses 4020 ventilator
- 25mm thick
- perfectly centred on the extruder heat-sink
- the extruder can be removed without the need to remove the whole assembly fan+concentrator (I added a hole facing the screw which can be reached by going through the fan blades
- I added a layer of XTC-3D which is a kind of Epoxy glue giving a silky surface finish which for sure, helping in reducing the turbulences in the air flow.
- Unfortunately as on the left side, at the home position, the ventilator is very close to the bed height switch but also close to the linear bearings guiding the bed vertically.

I will move the bed height switch lower to install a thicker air concentrator.

On the extruder control board any idea how to activated the power on the 2 ventilators sockets which are available ?

rgds jerome

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Re: New issues I am getting

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 13, 2020 7:20 pm

GEGE wrote:
On the extruder control board any idea how to activated the power on the 2 ventilators sockets which are available ?

rgds jerome

I've documented this several times on the N series. ... fan#p17990
So technically both outputs can be controlled via gcode, but your typical slicer will only add fan commands as M106 thus controlling the second from the left output. The far left output requires the custom command M42
Send M42 P8 S255 and that turns on the Fan0 output since that is logical processor pin8 as seen in the pins file.
Send M42 P8 S0 to turn off.

#1 Your gcode and print profiles ALREADY have the fan controls enabled and are likely in every print file you've made to date. You simply never had a fan plugged into the output.
#2 The second fan output is NOT a standard gcode fan control but can be controlled by simple commands you add.
#3 The MOSFET controlling the fan is rated at something like 70 Amps, however, the known weak points are 3A max 12V source at the mainboard regulator shared with the LED strip lights and the existing fans including the mainboard blower. Next limitation is the wiring and the pin connectors. The 12V has to travel to the extruder head over the ribbon cable and IDC connectors and pin sockets. Then the 2 pin fan connector is the last weak link. Be sure to observe polarity when connecting fans. Failure to get that right will probably damage the typical brushless fan and maybe damage wiring or worse. Point being, you have about maybe 250-500mA of 12V source to work with.
That said, 2 reasonable sized fans has been added by many folks without issues.
In other words, to make life easy, you can Y split and connect 2 fans to the normal gcode controlled layer cooling fan output (The Second output from the left as shown also orange wording in the diagram)
head breakout2.jpg

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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: New issues I am getting

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 13, 2020 7:23 pm

You will also note, there is a green LED above each output. That indicates when they are on.
Gcode controlled fan breakout.jpg

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Re: New issues I am getting

Postby zemlin » Thu May 14, 2020 2:32 am

Don't know if it was replaced when you replaced the heat block, but a partially clogged nozzle would be another possibility. Can be hard to diagnose, but good prints from the other side could just be from the nozzle being clear.

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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: New issues I am getting

Postby GEGE » Thu May 14, 2020 5:41 pm

Thanks JETGUY for the good and "almost" clear to me, I say almost because I am not familiar at all with Gcode, I did some CNC coding while at school but that was 30 years ago !!!!
I have another possibility as I never switch off the fans it's to wire a cable from the main power supply through the chain directly on the added fans like that eve I get a powerful fan nothing can go wrong with the limited power the extruder board is able to supply. With a 2A thermal fuse it should do the job. I saw somewhere that the main power supply has a 24V output is that correct ? I have no idea where it's located , but I guess in a place hard to reach like under the printer. I can also add a small power supply with 12 or 24v output

Before moving to the right side of the extruder I had changed the complete extruder head twice, the nozzle 10 times , the PTFE tube once, I had also completely disassembled the BONDTECH extruder into piece ad cleaned the gears with a thin wire brush.
Every new attempt ended with the same result, grinding noise and lack of deposition. I have ordered a new et of gears I will see if that solves the problem.

I have the printer for 3 years and honestly I am very happy with it, that is my first and only 3D printer and I have done a lot of good stuff on it.
The only problem I have concerns threads , I printed 2 years ago a M20 plug for my boat, it came out perfect, I have tried a few weeks ago to reprint other threaded plugs , they all came out terrible, I tried in 0.05, 0.10, 0.15..... it didn't changes anything.
It's a mystery to me why they don't print properly any more, could it be a IDEAMAKER issue !!!!

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