Delamination problem

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:19 am

Got'em. I'll be back
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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:59 am

Hi Vicky

Please, I do wish you would not simply ignore my questions. I am trying to learn as we go along and I can learn nothing if you don't tell me what is going on. :)

Your last gCode had a few starting issues
200306-StartOfPrint-640x478.jpg

and a few finishing issues
200306-FinishedPrint-478x640.jpg


I have been using 3DLAC Plus printing adhesive and I found that, even without a Raft, when the Printing Platform temperature was set to 60C (as in your gCode I had the Devil of a job getting the model off the Platform. In this case I printed on copy with the adhesive, cleaned the Platform, then printed another without adhesive:
200306-Comparison-glueOnLeft-NoGlueOnRight-640x478.jpg

The medallion printed with adhesive is on the left.

FTR: there was little difference in surface finish but the no-adhesive model was slightly easier to remove.
Attachments
200306-FinishedPrint.JPG
200306-Comparison-glueOnLeft-NoGlueOnRight.JPG
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:16 am

Based on your pictures, we feel the issues are mainly caused by the WipeWall which is not wipe all the strings left on models among extruder switches. We would suggest you try adjusting WipeWall settings. You can tyr increase the Wipe Wall Loops or enable Wipe Tower for an extra help.
You can also try Cool Down Inactive Extruder to avoid strings.

Slicing files by default templates I mentioned last time was using templates for Raise3D printers and Raise3D filaments built in ideaMaker by default.
Screenshot_20200306181501.png
Attachments
Image_20200306181248.png
Image_20200306180922.png

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:45 am

Thanks Vicky - I'll have a play and get back to you.
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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:13 am

After some trial and error I came up with a set of settings for my Pro2 which give me this:
200309-OnPLatform left - OnSupport right-640x478.jpg


On the left is the underside of a medallion printed on the platform, on the right the medallion was printed on support. I am happy enough with the platform version but the support version is still a little rough.

Can I expect any better?

How do I get any better?

Download the settings here:
(https://1drv.ms/u/s!ArMxdUYEh9fKkAyBoTmQ_BL4q9pT?e=fcRf58).

Thanks
Attachments
200309-OnPLatform left - OnSupport right.JPG
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:53 pm

Would you like to take a picture of your build surface? Are you using any glue or other adhesion on build surface?
What are the red and white leftovers on the bottom of the print?

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:48 pm

My bad. :(
I said the left side medallion was printed on the platform. It was not. It was printed on a 2-1-2 Raft.

What 'red and white leftovers'? Anything you see on the black background is just detritus on the (black) board I use as a worktop. Nothing to do with the models.

I print on BuildTak. It's a year old and shows it. There are a couple of bits torn out of it, but I am not printing there.

I have just created a new test piece for checking dual-extruder alignment (gCode attached). While my X and Y alignment are fine (and, FTR my nozzle clearances are fine too) there are a few issues still related to this matter.
200310-RubicsFinish-478x640.jpg


1) (Cerise Arrows) you will notice gaps between the extrusion threads.
2) (Blue Arrow) The same problem exists at the bottom of the engraved lettering.
3) It would seem that the green material has printed one less layer than the red material.

At Advanced Settings --> Advanced I have here unchecked 'Override Filament Settings (Right Extruder)'. This should mean that the Left Extruder (Green) is printing at 90% Flowrate and the Right Extruder (Red) at 100%. This change to the flowrate doesn't seem to make much difference to the gaps between the extrusion threads.

Just a bit more information which I hope helps.
Attachments
200310-RubicsFinish.jpg
RubixCalibration.zip
(685.44 KiB) Downloaded 56 times
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:59 am

According to your result, seems the settings we select for your Esun PLA+ is not good enough. We adjusted the settings and sliced two files for you. The "Peg" one is single-extruder, please print that one first and see the result. If the result looks fine, then try the other dual-extruder file and let us know the result.
Attachments
RubixCalibration.gcode
(1.19 MiB) Downloaded 65 times
Block Peg.gcode
(1.11 MiB) Downloaded 58 times
RubixCalibration.data
(48.07 KiB) Downloaded 67 times
Block Peg.data
(74.04 KiB) Downloaded 60 times

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:17 am

Got those files. Vicky, thanks.
Printer hard at work at the moment - I'll try these tomorrow.

BTW: You refer to 'the settings we select for your eSun PLA+'. That last set of results was printed using the settings I selected (I sent you a link a couple of posts back).
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:55 pm

Got it. Let me know whether the result is getting better or not when it's done.

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:55 am

I think these photos show that we haven't fully resolved the problem.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!ArMxdUYEh9fKkA7MnokyN_kwd6n0?e=PdxndY

Even now, I don't know what you are trying so I can't do more than send the images.

Looking forward to your response. :geek:
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:24 am

We were thinking all the issues on the prints were because of improper slicing settings. So we were trying to adjust different settings for you and see whether the result is improving or not.
According to the latest pictures you shared, we are wondering whether there is any hardware issue on your picture or not. As the issue seems only show in certain direction/area.
I would like to ask to check your couplers and all four gantry rods in XY direction. Check whether the couplers are loose or cracked or not. Check whether the rods will move up and down when you move the extruder around.

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:33 am

Sorry about taking so long to get back. Things have been a bit chaotic round here :roll:

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:We were thinking all the issues on the prints were because of improper slicing settings. So we were trying to adjust different settings for you and see whether the result is improving or not.


Uh, huh! That is what I thought you might be trying. I can only add that these problems, as far as I can remember, date from the installation of 3.5.0.3635 beta.

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:I would like to ask to check your couplers and all four gantry rods in XY direction. Check whether the couplers are loose or cracked or not. Check whether the rods will move up and down when you move the extruder around.


Just had a good peer around and there is no problem I can see (I'm an experienced mechanical fitter).

I have just downloaded 3.5.2.4098. Is it going to wreck your diagnostics if I give that a go?
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:56 am

The version of ideaMakre shouldn't be related to the issue.
Please check the attached video and compare with your rods and see whether you can find any bent ones.
Attachments
343d24b6188913ad38e828bd89d2a298.zip
(1.09 MiB) Downloaded 50 times

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:50 am

Hi Vicky

I can't figure any way to get my print head to 'fast transit' about the place like that so I can check.
Can you send me some gCode which will race the print head around the perimeter of the print platform a couple of times.
Then I could have a look.

Thanks

PS - Stay well ;)
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:28 pm

We disable the motors and move the extruder manually. You don't need to move it that fast, as long as you can see whether the rods are jumping or not, it is good enough. I attached the video is just for you to understand how rods jump if they are bent.

Thank you! Stay safe!

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:30 am

I just gave the beast a bit of a workout as you described and I cannot see any 'jumping around'. I'd be surprised if there was. The machine is only a year old and I have taken pretty good care of it.

I am thinking that the problem is that the first layer laid on even dense support doesn't extrude enough material to even get to fuse. I have a little doofah to look at printing on support (see ZIP file) - it's printed on 2mm of support and involves two horizontal layers. You can see in this
200401-SupportTest-Bottom-478x640.jpg

that the extruded filaments are not bonding together. This probably means some simple setting I have wrong :? .

What's that setting?

Stay well ;)
Attachments
200401-SupportTest-Bottom.JPG
SupportTest.zip
(113.12 KiB) Downloaded 50 times
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:53 pm

Would you like confirm that the supported surface is the surface you are trying to show us in pictures?

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:31 am

Affirmative
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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:46 am

I should have sent you this instead of the gCode.
Attachments
Support Test.stl
(1.45 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
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