Delamination problem

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
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Vagulus
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Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:55 am

When, for example, I print the Raise Medallion the obverse surface is barely acceptable
Medallion Obverse-478x640.jpg

but the reverse is horrendous
Medallion Reverse-478x640.jpg


It seems that the struggle - and it is quite a struggle - to get the medallion off the support material (this was printed on support above the Raft) simply tears the body of the item apart. A delamination problem.

I am using a Pro2 and my settings can be downloaded here https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvZ9amwal2YXj4hM08Cn6JNvn3MYQg?e=6S6DmV

I think there are two issues here. (1) The extrusion material is not fusing properly; (2) The Medallion is too tightly bonded to the support. Trouble is, nothing I have tried has solved the problem.

I really would appreciate some help here with either or both these issues (and anything else relevant).

Thanks
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DeftCAD
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby DeftCAD » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:11 pm

Why are you printing on support material?

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:08 pm

DeftCAD wrote:Why are you printing on support material?

Many of my mechanical devices have several different levels - shelves for example -and the bottom side of a shelf must be resting on support. I want the underside of the shelf to print cleanly.

Why do you ask?
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:11 pm

Would you like to advise which type of PLA you are currently using?
Has you swapped nozzle or hotend recently on your printer?
Did you print with top lid on or off?

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:02 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Would you like to advise which type of PLA you are currently using?

I use eSun filament - in this case PLA+.

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Has you swapped nozzle or hotend recently on your printer?

No.

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Did you print with top lid on or off?

Lid off. (Using a Pro2.)
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:46 pm

Please try to print the dual-color calibration cube attached with PLA and 0.4mm nozzles.
And let me know whether the Raft on the print is easy to be removed or not.
Attachments
Dual-Color-Cube.data
(36.8 KiB) Downloaded 102 times
Dual-Color-Cube.gcode
(359.08 KiB) Downloaded 99 times

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:18 am

Yes - that released okay, no struggle, but it is pretty small and so would be relatively easy to get off. Anyway, it certainly was not glued to the Raft.

Speaking of rafts, you printed the raft with the Left Extruder. Any particular reason?

200220-Raise3D-TestpieceRelease-480x643.jpg

Note the bottom surface. It is not delaminated but it is not smooth either.
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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:38 am

Perhaps my problems is not so much 'delamination' as 'lack of lamination'. Consider when trying to print these
200220-ChewbsFinished-480x643.jpg

when starting to print the tubes on the Raft (still using eSun PLA+) the first layer does not stick to the Raft
200220-ChewbsStarting-480x643.jpg


I haven't changed the setting from the set I posted in this thread. Why does the first layer not print properly?
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DeftCAD
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby DeftCAD » Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:01 pm

Vagulus wrote:
DeftCAD wrote:Why are you printing on support material?

Many of my mechanical devices have several different levels - shelves for example -and the bottom side of a shelf must be resting on support. I want the underside of the shelf to print cleanly.

Why do you ask?


At face value, it didn't look to me like you needed support material for this print, so I was curious. I guess you're just using this as a test piece.

I think the top surfaces look like you're over-extruding: could it be that too much material is coming out and that's what's causgin the adhesion to the support material. Not sure about Raise software as I moved away from it, but Simplify3D has an option to print a dense layer on top of the support material - I've found this to make big imprevements to shelves like you're describing.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:28 am

Vagulus wrote:Perhaps my problems is not so much 'delamination' as 'lack of lamination'. Consider when trying to print these
200220-ChewbsFinished-480x643.jpg

when starting to print the tubes on the Raft (still using eSun PLA+) the first layer does not stick to the Raft
200220-ChewbsStarting-480x643.jpg


I haven't changed the setting from the set I posted in this thread. Why does the first layer not print properly?


Would you like to share your gcode with us of this print?

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:54 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Vagulus wrote:Would you like to share your gcode with us of this print?


Herewith download https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvZ9amwal2YXj4kHl5AIG8UL-XoK8A?e=QUF7Aq
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:32 am

We tried to slice your file for you. Please check the download link:
https://we.tl/t-Je1wDmKo1g

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:19 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:We tried to slice your file for you. Please check the download link:
https://we.tl/t-Je1wDmKo1g


Sorry, I've been away a few days. By the time I got back the file was no longer available.
Please try again. I'll try not to miss it this time.

Thanks
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:59 pm


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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:48 pm

Got the files this time, thanks Vicky.
Perhaps we will get a better idea of whether your alterations have been successful if you re-cut the code for this
Medallion Reverse-478x640.jpg
Medallion Reverse-478x640.jpg (40.5 KiB) Viewed 4043 times

which is the Raise Giveaway Spinner (my cut).

I have attached my code if you would like to give that a try.
Thanks
Attachments
Trinkets.zip
(1.53 MiB) Downloaded 86 times
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God so loved the World that
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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:43 am

I ran your code, Vicky, and while it was running I noticed a few things.
1) Printing the Raft you use two first layers - for ages I have only used one.
2) The 2-1-2 Raft gave a better surface that I usually achieved.
3) You set the Printing Platform Temperature to 60C - I usually use 30C because eSun's recommendation for PLA+ is 25-70C and keeping the platform above ambient is a real electricity guzzler. The temperature here today was 32C and we are cooling off from Summer which means that ambient usually well in the range. I have never had any problems with that setting.
4) You only use the left extruder so you don't get the model a different colour from the raft which I have always found useful when separating them. :)

I changed my settings for the Raise Giveaway Spinner to 2-1-2 and 30C and printed that. The bottom surface of the outer ring was much improved (not nice but not quite so dog-eared and tattered) but I had to used a chisel to get the medallion off the Raft. So hard I gave up in the end so as to avoid spearing myself with the chisel. :o

I am looking forward to getting your code for the Giveaway and I would really like a list of the setting changes changes you make. There is some little thing in here that I do not have right and I'd like to make come comparisons to find it.

Thanks
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:02 am

Please try the attached files. We sliced it with default templates, it should work with Esun PLA with no issue.
Let's do some print with these default settings and see the result then we go OFP Esun template to do more tests.
Attachments
Giveaway Spinner Raise3D.gcode
(1.54 MiB) Downloaded 88 times
Giveaway Spinner Raise3D.data
(57.52 KiB) Downloaded 88 times

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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:38 am

Thanks Vicky.
I'll give that a burl and get back to you.
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Vagulus
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vagulus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:16 am

This is what was produced
200305-Vicky'sMedallion-478x640.jpg


There is better detail in the attached large image. You can see that there was a little problem with the first few layers of the Wipe Wall. Otherwise all good.

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:We sliced it with default templates, ...

What do you mean by 'default templates' ?
Do I have access to them?
I'd like to use this 'default template' to print on support. Your gCode printed directly on the platform.
Attachments
200305-Vicky'sMedallion.JPG
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Delamination problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:10 am

Please check the new files attached.
Attachments
Giveaway Spinner Raise3D(1).gcode
(1.51 MiB) Downloaded 84 times
Giveaway Spinner Raise3D(1).data
(56.16 KiB) Downloaded 87 times


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