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Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:02 pm
by red
Hey folks - After slicing for my Pro2, I am seeing the inner shell showing through my outer, as if there is a layer missing.

Any ideas? The meshes have been "repaired" but perhaps some gremlins were left behind?

Your perspectives are appreciated. Thanks.

gaps.JPG

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:20 pm
by crimsonyoshi
I've created some "complex" parts where the inner layers juuuust show up here and there through the outer walls until you change the view on the model. That will make other inner layers show, and others disappear. Every time I've printed something looking like that in the model viewer, it's always come out fine. When your model is sliced, the printer will create "blocks" of nozzle thickness by layer height. If that block contains material (and there's a certain % threshold they use to determine if the block has material or not, as 1% wouldn't be very good to fill, where as maybe 33% would - I'm guessing at the percentages here), then the block is filled with plastic.

What you're seeing on the model viewer is the same block containing an outer shell block and an inner layer block overlaid. I don't think there's a way to make it go away, if anything it's showing your inner layers are nicely connected to your outer shell!

Caveat here is if you change the view and those inner colours are still showing up in the same places, then your inner layers are extruding slightly from the outer shell at .stl file creation time. Again though, with a minimal amount like that, the print should turn out fine.*

I'll also note, you can see a ripple effect, which is the layer height setting. The file itself might have real nice curves on the model, but since the layer height is what it is, the slicer is combining layers into a lower resolution to print. If you sliced that with a 0.01mm layer height, I'll bet those inner lines would be a lot less. Not that I'm suggesting you print at 0.01mm!

*Actual results may vary!

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:22 pm
by Jetguy
My bet is repaired isn't repaired, the issue is in the STL still. I could be wrong, but just don't trust a repaired STL on certain complex textured models.

I would use something like Nefabb or other tools to examine the STL (re-export the "fixed" version you are looking at), then definitely be extra anal when looking at the resulting gcode preview, zooming in and watching the pattern in the suspect areas.

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:33 pm
by Jetguy
Again, this could be a preview error, the but the final proof is always preview gcode, zoom in and actually look in detail in these suspect areas, actually play it segment by segment on a suspected error layer and this is where while Ideamaker is OK and better than nothing, you should be using something a lot better when previewing gcode. Also, hot tip of the day- Ideamaker and it's gap closing "thin wall function" has been a nightmare since they put it into the slicer. Definitely try disabling, preview the gcode, see if the spurious errors go away.

Personally, this is where I like S3D, but understand other folks like other tools, and there are online gcode preview tools as well.
Take the extra time before printing something like this- it's worth it. http://gcode.ws
https://wiki.shapeoko.com/index.php/Previewing_G-Code

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:39 am
by Vicky@Raise3D
May I ask .stl, .idea and .gcode files to have a look?

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:31 pm
by red
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:May I ask .stl, .idea and .gcode files to have a look?


Hi Vicky, sure thing. Do you have an email I can send it to? It is a work related project, so I am not able to post it publicly.

Here is the print in progress. It appears that indeed layers are missing.

Thank you for your help.

IMG_20190605_092232.jpg

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:15 pm
by Vicky@Raise3D
red wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:May I ask .stl, .idea and .gcode files to have a look?


Hi Vicky, sure thing. Do you have an email I can send it to? It is a work related project, so I am not able to post it publicly.

Here is the print in progress. It appears that indeed layers are missing.

Thank you for your help.

IMG_20190605_092232.jpg


Understood.
You can choose either open a support ticket at http://help.raise3d.com or send me a Private Message. Either way won't post your information to public.

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:14 pm
by red
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
red wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:May I ask .stl, .idea and .gcode files to have a look?


Hi Vicky, sure thing. Do you have an email I can send it to? It is a work related project, so I am not able to post it publicly.

Here is the print in progress. It appears that indeed layers are missing.

Thank you for your help.

IMG_20190605_092232.jpg


Understood.
You can choose either open a support ticket at http://help.raise3d.com or send me a Private Message. Either way won't post your information to public.


PM sent. Thanks.

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:25 pm
by red
To add to my woes, 12 hours into my print, one of the feet/legs popped off its support. This happens over and over. I guess Zhop is my only hope.

I had Dense Support Layers set to 3. It also appear the bottom of the foot didn't form correctly.

I have ton of stringing, I know. Running at 205 degrees.

partFallOff.jpg

bottom.jpg

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:49 am
by Vicky@Raise3D
Received your download link from PM. But I didn’t see STL file inside. Would you mind share STL file with us?

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:18 pm
by red
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Received your download link from PM. But I didn’t see STL file inside. Would you mind share STL file with us?


Whoops! Sending those now. I am using obj and not stl, so I will send those along with the .idea file.

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:22 pm
by red
I have rebuilt the model in Zbrush, repaired it in every way possible, and the lines persist.

Now I am seeing the same lines in other models.

I uninstalled ideamaker and reinstalled it. Latest version.

skillWithLines.JPG

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:39 pm
by Vicky@Raise3D
Thanks for sharing your file. We have tested it on our side, seems it can be sliced with no issue with Print Shells in Optimal Order disabled.

Re: Inner Shell Showing through outer, in preview - insights appreciated

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:06 pm
by red
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Thanks for sharing your file. We have tested it on our side, seems it can be sliced with no issue with Print Shells in Optimal Order disabled.



Great! It worked in Ideamaker, with not lines! Thank you. I will do a test print. Hoping part of the model doesn't get knocked off again. I'm going to try a different filament.