N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
Kurtyard
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Postby Kurtyard » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:52 pm

Frightening....i m a UM2+ user and was thinking about purchasing a Raise because of the build volume..until i read this thread. This printer looks so groundbreaking stable, doesn't it? Pity..

Jetguy
Posts: 3107
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:48 pm

You have to take this into perspective. Literally you have users who simply did not have basic skill sets required to maintain and operate the printer. Those are the grumpy reports you see here.

Understand how big this printer is and how much it weighs. It's freight shipping and costs anywhere from about $500-700 and maybe more depending on distance to ship an N2+ one way. Should you need a repair, you become the OWNER, OPERATOR, MAINTAINER, and Trouble Shooter of the machine.

Again, fundamental difference here.
Take the UM3 for example. The extruder cartridges are an entire module that plugs in. They are replaced as an entire unit.
The N series is discrete components. The thermocouple, heater cartridge, nozzle, heater block, thermal barrier AKA throat tube, heatsink, fans and ducts, they are individual components that can be assembled (and done so incorrectly) by the user.
This is really not that different from a UM2 or original Ultimaker. It still uses thermocouples. You absolutely can strip a setscrew. You can assemble a nozzle and hotend incorrectly and short the electronics or leak plastic out everywhere. This is nothing specific to Raise 3D.

So what you see here are the horror stories of a couple of bad units coupled with owners who did not understand or were not willing to learn. That's fine, it's their choice, they can claim whatever they want. I'm not saying this is a perfect printer or that there were not legitimate hardware problems in some cases.
However, it does come down to cost and expectations.
The Raise 3D N series is at least DOUBLE the weight of most consumer grade printers out there. The frame construction, the raw size and mass of these is impressive. Again, because of this, it becomes cost prohibitive to return or ship the printer for repairs.

Where most complaints come from:
#1 The advertised no leveling required on the bed. I've said it before, this marketing gimmick needs to go away. Yes, the bed needs leveled infrequently and is better than some other printers out there on the market, but the claim never leveled and factory leveled for a printer that weighs this kind of weight to be shipped to not change a fraction of a mm from shipping around the world is unrealistic.
So big deal, you may need to take 20 minutes and level the bed once in a blue moon. Get over it already.

#2 This is NOT going to teach you 3D printing basics. The manual and instructions are geared about how to use this specific hardware at a high level. It assumes you know something about 3D printing. It assumes you have basic skills, understand component names, material properties and other aspects.

#3 Again, since this machine is so big and there are not service centers and paid tech to show up at your location, YOU BECOME the troubleshooter down to the COMPONENT LEVEL. This requires moderate mechanical skills, basic understanding of common 3D prnting parts and terminology, basic understanding of extruder construction and components, basic electrical skills (resistance, current, voltage) and use of a multimeter.

These same skills are required for the vast majority of consumer 3D printers on the market today. Read any forum- people do DUMB stuff every day to nearly every 3D printer brand. What you are seeing is the thread for this brand of unhappy customers.

Kurtyard
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Postby Kurtyard » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:51 pm

I got your points, thank you for your encouraging comment.. it took me ages to find out all appropriate seetings and countermeasures to make a nice and unwarped ABS print on UM2. And yes, there were cases of bent UM2 frames with one foot not touching the ground. And i'm aware that usually mostly dissatisfaction is expressed in forums - but this is the place to gather information prior to an remarkable investment, and i have to distinguish between serious and non serious issues with this printer. I do not expect a printing out of the box, i have to learn the behaviour and specials of Raise printers, for shure. What remains is the concern of getting a system with defective shafts (marked, somehow damaged, seeing the pictures in this thread) and the issue thet the 2nd nozzle is damaging the surface / kicking off the print. I would like to use PVA not to spend hours of cutting support material. And i am mainly using ABS, probably i would have to add an additional heater inside. Most of the gallery images are some puppets and freaky gadgets, i'm interested in warping effect, surface condition and precision of the prints. Not so easy to get good images to compare with UM2 results as the community is much smaller. I will continue to watch the Raise before making a decision end of year.

Wolfman
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:24 am

Re: N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Postby Wolfman » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:45 pm

Jet, you're absolutely right.

It's my fault the machine arrived all scratched up with oil stains and fingerprints all over the acrylic. Also it's wrong of me to complain about the bent doors, because after all that's well within tolerances.

Sorry about the fact that second nozzle, no matter how many hours I spent calibrating the bed that (according to raise3d) is factory calibrated and never needs calibration and even after leveling the nozzles, is still striking the models and ruining long prints. I didn't know this is normal and I should not complain about it. After all I only spent $3600 on this printer, not a million dollars.

People, according to jet and Raise3d this stuff is normal when you buy a 3d printer that is advertised as ready to go out of the box. And if you have problems and your machine is broken, then you are all idiots. What can't you fix it yourself? Do you expect Raise3d to ship the printer back to their factory and fix their own fuck ups? Don't be stupid. Right jet? People. Right? Expecting to get what they paid for. What a joke.
Last edited by Wolfman on Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

EldRick
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:55 am

Re: N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Postby EldRick » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:09 pm

Any dual-nozzle machine is going to give more problems than a single-nozzle.
You won't need a chamber heater for ABS, a small circulating fan at best. I print all my money prints in ABS, and this machine does it better than my Ultimaker 2, once you quit trying to use the Buildtak side of the plate and use gluestick on glass. I reliably print 4"x8" ABS parts.

Wolfman
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:24 am

Re: N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Postby Wolfman » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:28 pm

This is why I pushed the second nozzle out of the way and I'm planning to remove it altogether (with the motor and hot end) to save on weight.

Sergio MT
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:16 am

Re: N2 plus not a great experience before even printing

Postby Sergio MT » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:16 pm

I am with You this, returned mine for another brand. This kicksarters still have a long way to go in their quality, warranty and support departments.


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