next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

PlasticJoe
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next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby PlasticJoe » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:16 am

Hello,

after a few months of usage I finally got my first clog/jam of the nozzle.

I admit I had used "risky" settings (high retraction, because the filament was oozing a lot) but regardless, the printer happily worked for many hours. After the job was ended I unloaded the filament and went home.
The next day, it was not possible to lad the filament.

Disassembled everything, there was solid stuff in the nozzle and throat tube, cleaned everything, reassembled, did calibration,
tried again same print and the whole thing happened again.
Print all day, unload filament, and next day, again, not possible to load the filament because there was solid stuff in the throat.

Is this normal? Is there some good practice I am missing?
When print is ended, should I let the filament in for next day (???) instead of unloading?
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Ryan@Raise3D
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby Ryan@Raise3D » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:48 am

This type of error is not common for the printer and you should not need to unload the printer between printing. I would reccomend ensuring that the material is unloaded at about 10c hotter than your standard printing to ensure that all the material is melted out and nothing can fall of the end causing the jam in question.

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ccclarke
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby ccclarke » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:48 am

This error is very common if you have heat creep which can be mitigated by proper installation of the hot end components. Heat travels up the throat tube and melts higher than desired. (This is why some enterprising owners have installed cooling systems to prevent the heat from traveling to far upwards.) The filament cools in the throat tube and when you remove the filament, there's a plug high enough in the throat tube that the heat from the block can't melt it. When you reload, the filament cannot push through the plug and you end up with nothing being extruded.
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PlasticJoe
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby PlasticJoe » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:54 pm

OK. I've seen the threads regarding water cooling.

Before considering that, what should I do to "mitigate the heat creep by proper installation of the hot end components" ?

Also, is this related or not to retraction? And if so, would it help to do some printing without retraction before unloading? (So that the unwanted molten stuff is pulled (or pushed) downwards ? Or just a single LONG Load before unload?
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ccclarke
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby ccclarke » Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:37 am

You never mentioned why you're unloading filament at the end of a print. I've always kept a roll installed in multiple Pro 2's until it runs out.

The first thing I'd replace is the stock side fan with an upgraded version that moves more air. Once I did that, my heat creep issues ended.
I installed a Noiseblocker fan, (and they're pretty inexpensive!) available here (scroll down): https://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c7 ... Page1.html

Remember, most high-volume manufacturers use the cheapest components they can source to reduce production costs. On a printer at this price point, heat creep shouldn't be an issue, but for many, it is.
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Ryan@Raise3D
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby Ryan@Raise3D » Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:03 am

The water cooling solution that some people have done to their printer is a bit overboard as the main cooling solution for the Pro2 is more than capable of preventing heat creep as long as the fan is functioning properly and the heat sinks are not resting on top of the aluminum heat blocks. Most of the issues people have encountered with heat creep can more likely be associated with the front fan of the print head starting to slow down due to age or material buildup in the fan and replacing the fan should fix the issue.

PlasticJoe
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby PlasticJoe » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 am

ccclarke wrote:You never mentioned why you're unloading filament at the end of a print.

Not at the end of each print, rather at the end of the day, to avoid filaments get wet until next usage (which is not necessarily next day).
In addition some filaments manufacturers (e.g. treedfilaments) recommend to not let the filament cool down in the printer for more than 20 minutes to avoid clog (either keep it hot or unload).
Based on this I deduced it was good practice to always unload filaments after usage...

ccclarke wrote:The first thing I'd replace is the stock side fan with an upgraded version that moves more air.

Thank you for the suggestion and link but I'm getting confused.
Do you mean the front fan?
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PlasticJoe
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby PlasticJoe » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:34 am

Ryan@Raise3D wrote: the Pro2 is more than capable of preventing heat creep as long as the fan is functioning properly and the heat sinks are not resting on top of the aluminum heat blocks. Most of the issues people have encountered with heat creep can more likely be associated with the front fan of the print head starting to slow down due to age or material buildup in the fan and replacing the fan should fix the issue.


Thank you. I confirm the heat sinks are far from the aluminum heat blocks and the fan looks to function properly. (Actually how could I measure whether it's going at 100% speed?)
The machine has worked about 150 hours total
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Saperusa
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby Saperusa » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:22 pm

PlasticJoe wrote:
Ryan@Raise3D wrote: the Pro2 is more than capable of preventing heat creep as long as the fan is functioning properly and the heat sinks are not resting on top of the aluminum heat blocks. Most of the issues people have encountered with heat creep can more likely be associated with the front fan of the print head starting to slow down due to age or material buildup in the fan and replacing the fan should fix the issue.


Thank you. I confirm the heat sinks are far from the aluminum heat blocks and the fan looks to function properly. (Actually how could I measure whether it's going at 100% speed?)
The machine has worked about 150 hours total


Hi,
With a tachometer, it's the only way to be sure the fan is working properly.

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Ryan@Raise3D
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby Ryan@Raise3D » Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:31 am

I apologize for the delay in response. Another way you could be able to see if the fan is functioning properly is by recording it with a camera and if you are able to see the individual blades of the fan this will indicate the fan is not spinning at full speed as the fan at full speed should not be visible except by some high end equipment.

Saperusa
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby Saperusa » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:41 am

Ryan@Raise3D wrote:I apologize for the delay in response. Another way you could be able to see if the fan is functioning properly is by recording it with a camera and if you are able to see the individual blades of the fan this will indicate the fan is not spinning at full speed as the fan at full speed should not be visible except by some high end equipment.


Ryan, If I know that the fan mounted on the pro2 has a RM speed of 4800 RPM I have to MEASURE 4800 RPM before I start printing.
Of course, it can happen that during printing the fan begins to slow down but at least start with the PRO2 in the correct conditions.
The only method to be sure that the fan works properly is the use of a tacheometer.
I approach the tacheometer to the fan and measure that the RPMs are correct; at that point, I can be reasonably sure that the printer should work properly.
The fan mounted on the PRO2 often does not slow down much, I had happened that the speed was below 4000 rpm, but enough to create problems.
Now I have an oversized fan on the PRO2 from SUNON and the problems are over as I have a margin on the RPM to work properly bigger than the fan in STOCK.
A good part of the problems on the PRO2 is caused by the front fan at least measuring it correctly before starting printing should be a staple.
By the way, as several pro2 users have done, I put a conveyor over the fan to help the temperature in the trottle remain correct and that also helped a lot, especially when I have to print with the supports.


https://www.amazon.it/Tachimetro-Misura ... 07&sr=8-52

PlasticJoe
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby PlasticJoe » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:19 pm

ccclarke wrote:I installed a Noiseblocker fan, (and they're pretty inexpensive!) available here (scroll down): https://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c7 ... Page1.html


Thank you. Which one?
I see there are two models having same exact price and dimensions.

It it interchangeable with no modification? Does it come with same connector?
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PlasticJoe
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby PlasticJoe » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:25 pm

Saperusa wrote:Now I have an oversized fan on the PRO2 from SUNON and the problems are over

Do you have a link for the exact model? Does it come with a connector?

Saperusa wrote:as several pro2 users have done, I put a conveyor over the fan to help the temperature in the trottle remain correct

Sorry I am new to all this. Is this conveyor something that can be purchased or something that I can print myself?
Is there another thread on this forum where I can find drawings, .stl files etc?


Thanks again; it says it needs a reflective strip to work, do you really put a sticker on one of those small blades?
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ccclarke
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby ccclarke » Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:54 pm

PlasticJoe wrote:
ccclarke wrote:I installed a Noiseblocker fan, (and they're pretty inexpensive!) available here (scroll down): https://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c7 ... Page1.html


Thank you. Which one?
I see there are two models having same exact price and dimensions.

It it interchangeable with no modification? Does it come with same connector?


I installed the 4000 rpm fan because it provided more airflow, (read the specs). I used the existing conn from the old fan and spliced it in. It is of a higher quality the the stock cooling fan, which was likely the lowest bid when Raise3D selected a vendor.
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Saperusa
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Re: next day clog AFTER printing and unloading filament

Postby Saperusa » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:04 am

PlasticJoe wrote:
Saperusa wrote:Now I have an oversized fan on the PRO2 from SUNON and the problems are over

Do you have a link for the exact model? Does it come with a connector?

Saperusa wrote:as several pro2 users have done, I put a conveyor over the fan to help the temperature in the trottle remain correct

Sorry I am new to all this. Is this conveyor something that can be purchased or something that I can print myself?
Is there another thread on this forum where I can find drawings, .stl files etc?


Thanks again; it says it needs a reflective strip to work, do you really put a sticker on one of those small blades?


Yes a little reflective strip and before You start to print You know if fan is ok.

the sunon is : MF50151V11000UA99

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07B67 ... UTF8&psc=1

The conveyer You can print from Yourself and find stl on Thingverse:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3246066

You will see from Yourself that PRO2 will go better.

S.


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