Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

DirkH
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:25 am

Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby DirkH » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:36 am

I use a Raise3D pro2 with some mods (liquid cooling of hotend and extruder motors, stronger fans, different airflow around the motion controller board, temperature controlled fans in the PSU). The issue is that printing nylon without any added components causes strong warping. I managed to get the first layer attached, but the walls of my construction tend to bend. My idea is to control the speed of the HEPA filter in a way to raise the temperature in the build space in a controlled manner to 60°C or 65°. At the moment it raises to 40-45°C.

- Has anyone tried to raise the temperature of the build space? Which temperature is still safe for the parts in there?

- @Vicky: I understand that Raise3D can't advise on a modification like that, but maybe it is possible to communicate temperature limits in the specifications of the components like the belts?

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:52 am

DirkH wrote:I use a Raise3D pro2 with some mods (liquid cooling of hotend and extruder motors, stronger fans, different airflow around the motion controller board, temperature controlled fans in the PSU). The issue is that printing nylon without any added components causes strong warping. I managed to get the first layer attached, but the walls of my construction tend to bend. My idea is to control the speed of the HEPA filter in a way to raise the temperature in the build space in a controlled manner to 60°C or 65°. At the moment it raises to 40-45°C.

- Has anyone tried to raise the temperature of the build space? Which temperature is still safe for the parts in there?

- @Vicky: I understand that Raise3D can't advise on a modification like that, but maybe it is possible to communicate temperature limits in the specifications of the components like the belts?


Unfortunately, we have not found the need to test the most extreme temperature limits that the belts could function in. However, you can note that when the printer is fully enclosed with the build plate set to 110C the internal temperature of the chamber does not ever really reach above 80C.

Saperusa
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby Saperusa » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:28 pm

I DirkH

I have seen that with bed temp at 100°C the temp inside printer room is under 50°C and so I think that also with max temp at 110 it's impossible to have 60°C. (55?)
Problems with Nylon and PRO2/Build TAK for my experience are not real.
For example, with Thaulman 910 I use 250/60 and Magigoo PA with a Raft offset of 15mm.
For "impossible" filament or for really bigger print there is NANO Polymer Adhesive of Vision Miner that it's the best glue for high temp filament or for geometry that doesn't want to stick on BuildTak.
For now the only filaments that I have seen with big problems to stick on buildTak are POM-C and PEHD all the rest it's only a problem to find the right profile and eventually the right glue.
With PEHD I'm sure that to have the room at 70°C could be the solution to stick on bed but the PRO2 is not thinked to have a room temp controlled and so impossible to print with PEHD.





Sandro

DirkH
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:25 am

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby DirkH » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:48 pm

Thank you for the hints!
@Sandro: Are your fans turned on when you print nylon? Do you apply any specific setting to be able to separate the raft from the object?
By the way: I'm not sure if Taulman 910 is nylon. On their internet page, they compare the durability with that of nylon. Maybe I should try this material.

Saperusa
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby Saperusa » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:21 pm

Hi Dirk,
I think 3d printer is not it's not an exact science we must study.
The profiles You have on raise academy are a good point to start, after You have to develop YOUR profile.
With nylon I use fan 0 but it depends from the geometry You have to print .
In every case for raft (4 layers) and the first layers of print You have to put fan 0 after if there are bosses You can put fan at 20-30%.
Lid on and before 12 hours at 70° to dry because Nylon is terrible to absorb humidity.
A good tip is to increase offset RAFT to have a better adhesion and to avoid that the piece You are printing can pul on the corner of the raft that with a larger raft are more distant from the piece.
I have bought a dryer of Eibos, it's not expensive and when You print You can left spools inside in perfect condition without humidity.

Sandro

Steadipanda
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 11:41 pm

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby Steadipanda » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:43 am

I've tried taulman 910 and polymaker nylon , filaments.ca carbon fiber nylon. taulman 230. taulman bridge.

best solution for now is any carbon fiber blend goes well with PEI sheet + PVA glue.
any pure nylon goes well with buildtak nylon surface and some magigoo PA.
the vision miner never worked for me I don't know why.

either way after 5kg of experiment of each filament I came to a conclusion that warp free without a heated chamber is simply a dream.
anything print bigger than the size of an 3x3 Rubik's cube will warp.

and without a mesh bed leveling, due to the sag gantry, the middle of the bed is always higher then the rest of the plate. resulting a harder task to print nylon on this printer since we can't use raft for nylon at all. (I've tried to use taulman 230 as raft and taulman 910 on top, don't work. will warp off the 230. but the 230 is a great support material for nylon )

I'm about to apply insulation foil on the acrylics and relocate the motherboard outside underneath the printer. if I can solve the bed leveling this would save me $10k from buying mosaic element HT

Saperusa
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby Saperusa » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:55 am

Hi Steadipanda,
I think that levelling the bed it's the first thing to do but if You work some hours on it, it's possible to levelling "perfect" the bed.
After with raft and Magigoo Pa You can print without problem also with size bigger.
I use Taulman 910 with 910 raft, also with sequential print and so in a different part of the surface bed without problems.

S.

DirkH
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:25 am

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby DirkH » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:43 am

Seems as if some of us like Sandro have no problem with bed levelling and others like me and Steadipanda have problems, mainly due to a sag gantry. The difference might be, that people without problems use rafts and only filaments that permit to use rafts. And maybe people with problems print bigger objects.
When it comes to warping, first layer adhesion is one problem, the tendency of walls to bend horizontally (create buckles) is another. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo of by misprints, I hope I expressed myself well enough. Stephan from CNC kitchen made a video about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ygdNQThAs, min 3:13. Seems to me that bending is less with a chamber at 45° (or more?) and with a textured surface. I will try to raise the temperature to 60° by regulating the HEPA filter fan. I hope this is without harm because I use liquid cooling and I changed the airflow in the motor control box in a way that it gets the fresh air from outside. Do you use other techniques to optimize the behaviour of the printer with this kind of filament? Or any other comment regarding the idea to raise the temperature a little.

Saperusa
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby Saperusa » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Hi DirkH,
is not exactly, TPU and TPE is well known that doesn't want raft and I use these filaments normally without raft but directly on bed (without problems).
PLA, ABS, ASA,PC, Nylon(Taulman 910),PCTPE (Taulman), PETG-TECHG (Taulman) in my print wants raft and I use raft.
Last week I had to print 8 pieces sequentially without raft with Poliflex TPU95 and the pieces was really in every part of the bed.
The pieces in that case were not big, but if the bed could be not well levelling some of us probably wouldn't have stick on bed.
Instead all were perfectly finished and stick and was also hard to popup from bed.
I'm sure that the first thing is to work on levelling bed, after You can print also big object with help of the right glue and the correct profile filament.

S.

Labirynt
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Controlling temperature of the build space by controlling the HEPA-filter fan

Postby Labirynt » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:29 am

DirkH wrote:- Has anyone tried to raise the temperature of the build space? Which temperature is still safe for the parts in there?


I've add extra fan with heater on the bottom of printer :)

Safe temp in chamber? Around 60 C degree. Why? Because of other elements can work up to 80 C degree (belts, wires!, motors)


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