Filament stepper not turning during printing

printilio
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 6:21 am

Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby printilio » Wed May 12, 2021 6:26 am

I've got a Raise3D Pro2, SN 10131828082. I've never used it before; trying to get it up and running after it was put in storage. Judging by the scraps I found along with it, it's had ... issues.

I followed the getting started guide, downloaded a random 3D model from the 'net, sliced it, printed it, and ... nothing. The head is moving and the printer thinks it's printing, but nothing is coming out of the nozzle. I'm using the Raise3d Premium Red PLA.

The funny thing is that the feeding works. With the nozzle at 260, the motor is definitely pulling on the filament, and plastic is oozing out. I followed the procedure in the wiki to set the tension on the extruder and basically the second that screw is in at all, it's already grabbing the filament.

I put a sharpie dot on the shaft of the extruder motor to verify that it's simply not rotating during printing. Nozzle is set to 205. Any ideas?

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ccclarke
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby ccclarke » Wed May 12, 2021 11:40 pm

Your thread title says, "Filament Stepper Not Turning During Printing" yet your description of the problem states, "the feeding is working". These statements contradict each other. Which is it?

IT's difficult to determine from what you've written if you've followed the correct sequence. If it isn't laying down filament, you've got some preliminary steps to complete before you get to the point of slicing and printing something.

The sequence to get the left hot end running is:

1. Home the print head.

2. Set the nozzle height.

3. Load filament until it flows from the nozzle. If you can't pass this step, you have troubleshooting to perform.

I'd start by dropping the left hot end from the extruder and verify there's a clear filament path from the top of the extruder to the bottom where the filament enters the hot end's throat using the supplied cleaning rod.

After that, inspect the hot end. If I understand your symptom elaboration correctly, there's a good chance there's a clogged filament path because the extruder cannot push filament indefinitely without plastic exiting the nozzle or eating away at the filament with the extruder hob gear.

If the extruder gear is tightened against the filament and nothing comes out, you should be hearing clicking and see a portion of chewed away filament where it was contacting the gear when the filament is pulled out of the top. Ensure the extruder gear is clean too. Even with no filament in the extruder, with the door open, you should be able to visually verify the gear is turning. There's a chance it's turning, but the motor is hosed and can't supply enough torque, but a clog is more likely.

4. Once it extrudes filament though the nozzle, you can slice something and feed it to the printer. Don't waste your time trying to print anything until you get filament flowing from the nozzle first.

You can tell if it's feeding into the extruder by lightly grasping the filament at the top of the extruder and feel during the loading sequence. After a short period of time, you should see filament flow from the nozzle. Then, you can stop the loading process and pass off a sliced part to the printer. I recommend printing easy calibration objects like a 20mm open cube, to judge the printer performance. It takes less than 15 minutes to print, before getting into more involved prints.

CC
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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Thu May 13, 2021 10:49 pm

printilio wrote:I've got a Raise3D Pro2, SN 10131828082. I've never used it before; trying to get it up and running after it was put in storage. Judging by the scraps I found along with it, it's had ... issues.

I followed the getting started guide, downloaded a random 3D model from the 'net, sliced it, printed it, and ... nothing. The head is moving and the printer thinks it's printing, but nothing is coming out of the nozzle. I'm using the Raise3d Premium Red PLA.

The funny thing is that the feeding works. With the nozzle at 260, the motor is definitely pulling on the filament, and plastic is oozing out. I followed the procedure in the wiki to set the tension on the extruder and basically the second that screw is in at all, it's already grabbing the filament.

I put a sharpie dot on the shaft of the extruder motor to verify that it's simply not rotating during printing. Nozzle is set to 205. Any ideas?


Can you please attach a few images of the entire printhead assembly as well as some detailed images of the hotend assemblies?

printilio
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 6:21 am

Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby printilio » Sat May 15, 2021 2:17 am

Here you go, Steven.
Attachments
IMG_3483.jpeg
IMG_3484.jpeg
IMG_3485.jpeg
IMG_3486.jpeg

printilio
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby printilio » Sat May 15, 2021 2:29 am

Also just realized I should try the other extruder - same result. That is, both nozzles feed fine, but neither motor spins while printing.

I completely loosened the tension screw and I'm able to push filament through during printing (at 205 C).

Jetguy
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 17, 2021 9:15 pm

The front control panel does nothing more than send gcode commands when you press buttons like load and unload filament on the control panel right? So if that command works and your print file doesn't, please post the offending gcode as exported from idea maker so we can validate it's not a setting or profile issue before assuming the printer is wrong.

Again, post the gcode. Why did Raise3D tech support skip this obvious step in troubleshooting?

printilio
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby printilio » Wed May 19, 2021 2:57 am

@Jetguy, thanks for stepping in. I'm also frustrated that my posts have to be approved by a moderator, and that I don't get notifications to my email...

Anyway, I was trying to print a simple, single-piece 3DBenchy (I downloaded it from https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:763622).

I had to re-slice to get the gcode file, because I was uploading directly to the printer. Should be representative of my tests, anyway.
Attachments
3DBenchy.gcode
(3.51 MiB) Downloaded 26 times

Jetguy
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 19, 2021 1:00 pm

I'm still trying to analyze this but that example is setup as dual extrusion with a raft and resulting wipe wall from being dual extrusion. It uses 1.2 meters of the left and 4.7 meters of the right filament.

So yeah, if you only loaded left side, #1 it barely uses it and #2 doesn't print with it at the start.
Not saying that's it or the smoking gun, but not a great example to open up with.

Jetguy
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 19, 2021 1:40 pm

FWIW, from the other recent topic of a Pro2 accuracy issue, a highly recommended test STL sample kit is this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5573

I use all of the objects in this test when calibrating and commissioning a printer new to me.

Worthy of going over:
#1 I run the extruders load filament and extrude to see that they are basically working- sounds like you did that.
#2 I level check the bed and set the bed z-gap end limit switch adjustment. I'm not sure you've done that? https://support.raise3d.com/Pro2-Series ... 4-225.html
#3 Given this is a Pro2 and the hotends can be adjusted first check and make sure both are the correct same height after performing bed leveling and gap adjustment. https://support.raise3d.com/Pro2-Series ... 4-223.html
The reason is, if the nozzle is dragging or too close to the bed, then it cannot extrude and the stepper motor will ATTEMPT to turn but cannot and thus makes a thumping or clicking sound. Not the motor's fault, you basically are closing the nozzle being too close to the bed surface.

#4 Printing a test object. I first print the 20mm square solid calibration cube with the primary extruder, no raft, so support, nothing else enabled and key 100% infill to being testing flow rate or volume calibration. You need the 100% infill to properly calibrate and determine flow rate compensation- especially if you are lazy and not measuring and compensating for filament diameter. You aren't ready for real calibration, right now you have a printing problem,, but this is the start of that step- printing an object and observing the results to make decisions.

I just took a moment and edited a Pro2 profile to the standardized settings I typically start with (skirt, no raft, 0.2mm layer height, 100% infill for the test object, and used the 20mm test cube). I've exported it for you. I also exported my gcode (sorry, I don't have a pro2 to test with here) but would like to think this should work. I use Skirt nearly always on to prime the extruder and help me see when a print starts if the bed level and Z gap is right. Skirt also helps catch any stray filament from the nozzle purge or prime at the start of the print. This is setup for the left extruder only and PLA. Also, 2.0mm layer height is the best starting point, the speed profile was going higher with a 0.25 layer height and while that's faster (less layers for a given object height) for best bonding, the ideal ratio is 1/2 nozzle width to layer height. With. 0.4mm nozzle, that's 0.2mm height.
Attachments
20mm-box.gcode
(274.27 KiB) Downloaded 24 times
Speed - Pro2 - PLA-export.bin
(16.34 KiB) Downloaded 29 times

printilio
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby printilio » Wed May 19, 2021 1:52 pm

Thanks @jetguy; a few comments:
1. Correct, loading filament works (motors spin and plastic comes out of the nozzles).
2. I've set the Z switch position, but I don't have the proper feeler gage so setting the gap was less than ideal (I did it with folded paper)
3. I did not adjust the nozzles. In the "Move Axis" screen, the right-most item makes absolutely no sense to me. In general, it seems the touch screen appears unresponsive, when really it means if the machine is doing something else and you give it an instruction, it gets buffered at the end and may happen several seconds later. I could not get consistent behavior with that right-most control; to me it looks like I could nudge the nozzles and up and down, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Despite my issues with #3, I proceeded to try to print because the nozzles are not dragging. Loosening the tension screw completely allowed me to push filament through during printing, so to me that said that there are no clogs and the nozzle temperature was sufficient.

Moreover, with the tension screw loose, any mechanical obstruction would have been released so then the motor should have turned - even if it wasn't pushing filament. It never did, which makes me suspicious it's a software problem.

Jetguy
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 19, 2021 3:14 pm

No, that is E feed!!!
That right most control is MOVING the Filament in MM of filament going into or being retracted from the extruder.

A printer has 4 axis!!
XYZ and E
XY moves the nozzle left and right, front to back.
Z moves the bed
E moves the filament feeder motor- of the active chosen extruder

Nozzle switching is a completely separate gcode function not an axis. Raising a lowering of the nozzle is specific to the Pro2 series and again, not an axis. It also requires both nozzles be preheated so that mechanically because the feeder is above the hotend a fixed distance, when the nozzle rises or lowers of the active and inactive head, the filament inside would be jamming into the nozzle or retracting slightly as the entire hotend moves up and down.

It sounds like you may have literally jogged the filament right out of the feeder gears by not understanding the basics of the control panel.

Load the filament, upload that test gcode file I sent, print it.

Jetguy
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 19, 2021 3:23 pm

I see it coming now, your next failure or confusion is the stepper disable or unlock icon.
No, it's not a status, it's a button to command to unlock the steppers when you need to manually move an axis.

Jetguy
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 19, 2021 3:41 pm

Sorry, not trying to give you a hard time. We all had to learn somewhere.
It's just way harder to troubleshoot remotely when there is a chance we have some unknowns.

My first suspect was that you might be using the wrong profile or other mistakes in producing the gcode. I think that still is a possible source of some of the problem.
The second problem is knowing the machine, setting up and loading the machine, and the mechanical calibrations (bed leveling, z-gap) along with loading and ensuring the feeders and extruders are ready and functional.
And then, because you didn't understand the control panel and kept pressing the E up and down, highly likely you unloaded or jammed the filament. Either one could prevent feeding during the print.

So we kind of need to start over, a KNOWN good print file, a known good just loaded filament and saw it extrude state, and then start a test print.

printilio
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby printilio » Wed May 19, 2021 4:01 pm

No offense taken Jetguy. Learning a lot here.

The feed button definitely never fed filament, I distinctly remember the nozzles moving up and down *sometimes* when I pushed that. Now that I know what this is supposed to do, I can try it again....

But first I'll run a load and then try to print your test file and see what happens.

printilio
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby printilio » Wed May 19, 2021 4:30 pm

OK, I loaded both filaments. I adjusted the tension screws so that I cannot stop the filament by clamping it between my index finger and thumb.

I hit print on your 20mm box. Both nozzles heat to 205 and the heatbed to 60. Heatbed takes the longest, of course.

When the heatbed gets to 60, I heard the nozzles move (didn't see what actually happened). the XYZ axes home. The right nozzle heater turns off (never understood why it heats both nozzles regardless of the program).

Once printing starts, there's no filament. The motor is not spinning. I have a dot of sharpie on the motor axle and I can visually see that it's not rotating. I can see a gap between the nozzle tip and the bed, so there's no obstruction there. And, as before, I loosened the tension screw and successfully pushed filament through with my hand. Even with the tension screw loose, the motor is not spinning.

It's almost as if there are two stepper drivers, one for fast motion like loading, and one for printing, and the printing one is dead.

So I stopped the print. Go to tune and set the left nozzle temperature to 205. Go to utilities and try to feed the left nozzle. It keeps telling me the nozzle is not up to temperature. For some reason even after setting the temperature to 205, the nozzle cooled to 190. I see it heating up now....

It's at 204. Still won't let me feed. So I go to tune and change it to 260. Finally, when it hit 260, I was able to feed and verify the motor spins, and filament comes out.

So, back to square one; the motor does not turn during printing, but it turns any other way I can make it turn (either loading filament or manual feed).

I have to give this printer to someone else to work on. Hopefully, they can get it up and running. I'll say this is not my cup of tea! At the price I can get parts made commercially, this printer just does not seem like it's worth it, at least in a business setting.

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Sat May 22, 2021 1:32 am

I would suggest creating a support ticket so that one of our technical support engineers can better assist you in getting the issue resolved.


printilio wrote:OK, I loaded both filaments. I adjusted the tension screws so that I cannot stop the filament by clamping it between my index finger and thumb.

I hit print on your 20mm box. Both nozzles heat to 205 and the heatbed to 60. Heatbed takes the longest, of course.

When the heatbed gets to 60, I heard the nozzles move (didn't see what actually happened). the XYZ axes home. The right nozzle heater turns off (never understood why it heats both nozzles regardless of the program).

Once printing starts, there's no filament. The motor is not spinning. I have a dot of sharpie on the motor axle and I can visually see that it's not rotating. I can see a gap between the nozzle tip and the bed, so there's no obstruction there. And, as before, I loosened the tension screw and successfully pushed filament through with my hand. Even with the tension screw loose, the motor is not spinning.

It's almost as if there are two stepper drivers, one for fast motion like loading, and one for printing, and the printing one is dead.

So I stopped the print. Go to tune and set the left nozzle temperature to 205. Go to utilities and try to feed the left nozzle. It keeps telling me the nozzle is not up to temperature. For some reason even after setting the temperature to 205, the nozzle cooled to 190. I see it heating up now....

It's at 204. Still won't let me feed. So I go to tune and change it to 260. Finally, when it hit 260, I was able to feed and verify the motor spins, and filament comes out.

So, back to square one; the motor does not turn during printing, but it turns any other way I can make it turn (either loading filament or manual feed).

I have to give this printer to someone else to work on. Hopefully, they can get it up and running. I'll say this is not my cup of tea! At the price I can get parts made commercially, this printer just does not seem like it's worth it, at least in a business setting.

engincan
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby engincan » Fri May 28, 2021 2:09 pm

I have the same problem thats why I understood what he means

There is no problem by loading filament. It flows with no problem. But, when I print something, It does not work and extruder gear clicking always. A sound is coming " tick tick tick". But this problem is not exist in loading filament part.









ccclarke wrote:Your thread title says, "Filament Stepper Not Turning During Printing" yet your description of the problem states, "the feeding is working". These statements contradict each other. Which is it?

IT's difficult to determine from what you've written if you've followed the correct sequence. If it isn't laying down filament, you've got some preliminary steps to complete before you get to the point of slicing and printing something.

The sequence to get the left hot end running is:

1. Home the print head.

2. Set the nozzle height.

3. Load filament until it flows from the nozzle. If you can't pass this step, you have troubleshooting to perform.

I'd start by dropping the left hot end from the extruder and verify there's a clear filament path from the top of the extruder to the bottom where the filament enters the hot end's throat using the supplied cleaning rod.

After that, inspect the hot end. If I understand your symptom elaboration correctly, there's a good chance there's a clogged filament path because the extruder cannot push filament indefinitely without plastic exiting the nozzle or eating away at the filament with the extruder hob gear.

If the extruder gear is tightened against the filament and nothing comes out, you should be hearing clicking and see a portion of chewed away filament where it was contacting the gear when the filament is pulled out of the top. Ensure the extruder gear is clean too. Even with no filament in the extruder, with the door open, you should be able to visually verify the gear is turning. There's a chance it's turning, but the motor is hosed and can't supply enough torque, but a clog is more likely.

4. Once it extrudes filament though the nozzle, you can slice something and feed it to the printer. Don't waste your time trying to print anything until you get filament flowing from the nozzle first.

You can tell if it's feeding into the extruder by lightly grasping the filament at the top of the extruder and feel during the loading sequence. After a short period of time, you should see filament flow from the nozzle. Then, you can stop the loading process and pass off a sliced part to the printer. I recommend printing easy calibration objects like a 20mm open cube, to judge the printer performance. It takes less than 15 minutes to print, before getting into more involved prints.

CC

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Steven@Raise3D
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Re: Filament stepper not turning during printing

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:37 am

I would suggest creating a support ticket so that one of our technical support engineers can better assist you in getting the issue resolved.


engincan wrote:I have the same problem thats why I understood what he means

There is no problem by loading filament. It flows with no problem. But, when I print something, It does not work and extruder gear clicking always. A sound is coming " tick tick tick". But this problem is not exist in loading filament part.









ccclarke wrote:Your thread title says, "Filament Stepper Not Turning During Printing" yet your description of the problem states, "the feeding is working". These statements contradict each other. Which is it?

IT's difficult to determine from what you've written if you've followed the correct sequence. If it isn't laying down filament, you've got some preliminary steps to complete before you get to the point of slicing and printing something.

The sequence to get the left hot end running is:

1. Home the print head.

2. Set the nozzle height.

3. Load filament until it flows from the nozzle. If you can't pass this step, you have troubleshooting to perform.

I'd start by dropping the left hot end from the extruder and verify there's a clear filament path from the top of the extruder to the bottom where the filament enters the hot end's throat using the supplied cleaning rod.

After that, inspect the hot end. If I understand your symptom elaboration correctly, there's a good chance there's a clogged filament path because the extruder cannot push filament indefinitely without plastic exiting the nozzle or eating away at the filament with the extruder hob gear.

If the extruder gear is tightened against the filament and nothing comes out, you should be hearing clicking and see a portion of chewed away filament where it was contacting the gear when the filament is pulled out of the top. Ensure the extruder gear is clean too. Even with no filament in the extruder, with the door open, you should be able to visually verify the gear is turning. There's a chance it's turning, but the motor is hosed and can't supply enough torque, but a clog is more likely.

4. Once it extrudes filament though the nozzle, you can slice something and feed it to the printer. Don't waste your time trying to print anything until you get filament flowing from the nozzle first.

You can tell if it's feeding into the extruder by lightly grasping the filament at the top of the extruder and feel during the loading sequence. After a short period of time, you should see filament flow from the nozzle. Then, you can stop the loading process and pass off a sliced part to the printer. I recommend printing easy calibration objects like a 20mm open cube, to judge the printer performance. It takes less than 15 minutes to print, before getting into more involved prints.

CC


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