Fire safety

Skyline41rus
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:09 pm

Fire safety

Postby Skyline41rus » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:12 am

Hello, today I found such horror in my Pro2. It's good that there was no fire. What should I do now? I think the Raise3d team needs to quickly resolve this issue with fire safety. And I also intend to sue if my school burns down because of this raw device!
IMG_7713.jpeg
IMG_7712.jpeg

Markus64
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Fire safety

Postby Markus64 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:12 am

It is noticeable that no cable end sleeves were installed. If the screw connections are still a little loose, this is exactly what happens. Apparently there are printers with and without cable end sleeves.

Skyline41rus
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:09 pm

Re: Fire safety

Postby Skyline41rus » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:15 am

Markus64 wrote:It is noticeable that no cable end sleeves were installed. If the screw connections are still a little loose, this is exactly what happens. Apparently there are printers with and without cable end sleeves.

Thank you

JMFX
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:10 pm

Re: Fire safety

Postby JMFX » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:28 pm

I found the same thing with mine, and replaced it with an Anderson PowerPole crimpped connector for a better connection and strain relief

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ccclarke
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:09 pm

Re: Fire safety

Postby ccclarke » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:12 pm

Using a threaded fastener / terminal block connector for a high current application on a moving platform with the potential to loosen over time and cause an electrical or fire hazard is a very poor design choice. With heavy use over time, this type of built-in design oversight tends to get worse, not better.

At a bare minimum, a positive locking connector with a molded strain relief is a much better choice. One successful lawsuit would be a lot more expensive than a redesign and cable replacement for all registered customers. --Not to mention the negative publicity in a very competitive segment of the 3D printer industry.

I'm teaching a cabling class next week and will be including these pictures for my students. I checked one of our Pro 2's and all four fasteners needed to be tightened. I'll check the other tomorrow.

I'll be changing this design flaw out right away.

The red wire appears to be tinned. If so, this is a serious production / QA inspection defect - even for a Class 1 (Consumer grade) product. Tinned wires are prohibited from being crimped to pins or installed using threaded fasteners in terminal blocks, etc. You can apply solder to a wire after it has been crimped (on a lug terminal for example) but never on a conductor inserted into a terminal block style connection like this. The conductors are meant to be crushed by the end of the fastener to be adequately secured. A tinned wire cannot be crushed without excessive force applied to the fastener.

@ Raise3D: If they aren't already, all of your production techs, cable engineers, and QA inspectors should be certified to IPC-A-610 standards, https://www.ipc.org/ContentPage.aspx?pa ... WHMA-A-620

If you're having your cables suppled by outside vendors, this spec should be included in the drawing notes to ensure quality standards are met. This is how many companies meet ISO standards for workmanship. All certifications must be renewed every two years.

One of my collateral duties at our company is to be the in-house instructor for electrical workmanship and inspection courses. I've been teaching this course and the J-001 Soldering Standards course for over a decade and one of the easiest ways to ensure a quality product is to have trained and certified people building them. Improperly-spec'd materials and workmanship should be the last thing suspected when there's a problem. I've built cable and wiring harnesses for spacecraft and am intimately familiar with the importance of quality workmanship. This is an easy fix for this printer and any new models. Consider these photos as a warning not to be ignored without facing potential serious consequences. This customer was lucky; the situation could have been a lot worse.
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Male Modeler / Sub-Human

KaneTW
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:57 am

Re: Fire safety

Postby KaneTW » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:24 pm

That's such a basic thing to get wrong. My Raise3D Pro2 rental should arrive soon, and I'll check if that's an issue there too.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 7117
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Fire safety

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:13 am

I suppose you are in Russia. Please contact our sales partner in your region.
They should have spare heated and the connector which can solve your issue. We have imporved the design of wire connector which should be able to avoid similar issue happen again.

Skyline41rus
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:09 pm

Re: Fire safety

Postby Skyline41rus » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:01 am

ccclarke wrote:Using a threaded fastener / terminal block connector for a high current application on a moving platform with the potential to loosen over time and cause an electrical or fire hazard is a very poor design choice. With heavy use over time, this type of built-in design oversight tends to get worse, not better.

At a bare minimum, a positive locking connector with a molded strain relief is a much better choice. One successful lawsuit would be a lot more expensive than a redesign and cable replacement for all registered customers. --Not to mention the negative publicity in a very competitive segment of the 3D printer industry.

I'm teaching a cabling class next week and will be including these pictures for my students. I checked one of our Pro 2's and all four fasteners needed to be tightened. I'll check the other tomorrow.

I'll be changing this design flaw out right away.

The red wire appears to be tinned. If so, this is a serious production / QA inspection defect - even for a Class 1 (Consumer grade) product. Tinned wires are prohibited from being crimped to pins or installed using threaded fasteners in terminal blocks, etc. You can apply solder to a wire after it has been crimped (on a lug terminal for example) but never on a conductor inserted into a terminal block style connection like this. The conductors are meant to be crushed by the end of the fastener to be adequately secured. A tinned wire cannot be crushed without excessive force applied to the fastener.

@ Raise3D: If they aren't already, all of your production techs, cable engineers, and QA inspectors should be certified to IPC-A-610 standards, https://www.ipc.org/ContentPage.aspx?pa ... WHMA-A-620

If you're having your cables suppled by outside vendors, this spec should be included in the drawing notes to ensure quality standards are met. This is how many companies meet ISO standards for workmanship. All certifications must be renewed every two years.

One of my collateral duties at our company is to be the in-house instructor for electrical workmanship and inspection courses. I've been teaching this course and the J-001 Soldering Standards course for over a decade and one of the easiest ways to ensure a quality product is to have trained and certified people building them. Improperly-spec'd materials and workmanship should be the last thing suspected when there's a problem. I've built cable and wiring harnesses for spacecraft and am intimately familiar with the importance of quality workmanship. This is an easy fix for this printer and any new models. Consider these photos as a warning not to be ignored without facing potential serious consequences. This customer was lucky; the situation could have been a lot worse.


I wrote everything correctly, but they don't care. China can only copy. They are not smart enough to create a quality product)

Skyline41rus
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:09 pm

Re: Fire safety

Postby Skyline41rus » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:05 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:I suppose you are in Russia. Please contact our sales partner in your region.
They should have spare heated and the connector which can solve your issue. We have imporved the design of wire connector which should be able to avoid similar issue happen again.


1) My warranty is over.
2) When I last shipped this crude product under warranty to your representatives in Russia, I paid $ 1000 for shipping.
3) I fixed it myself. And I wrote about it so that other people know what they should be afraid of.

User avatar
ccclarke
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:09 pm

Re: Fire safety

Postby ccclarke » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:25 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:I suppose you are in Russia. Please contact our sales partner in your region.
They should have spare heated and the connector which can solve your issue. We have imporved the design of wire connector which should be able to avoid similar issue happen again.


This is hardly the response current (and prospective) customers want to read from the factory Customer Support Group.

A more reassuring answer might be: "We have proactively recognized this issue and addressed it by improving the design as of build date: XX/XX/XXXX. (Show picture of new part). For all printers built prior to that date, the part will be offered free of charge to any registered owner that requests it, along with an installation procedure for qualified local distributors. The improved P/N is: XXXXXXX. In the meantime, it would be prudent for all Pro2 owners to periodically inspect and tighten the terminal block connectors to ensure they do not loosen with repeated use."

Note that AmazonBasic products have been taking a pretty big Public Relations beating lately over numerous reports of their products catching fire due to poor quality control. . . . Once the lawyers get involved, it will likely get ugly.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/10/2143 ... e-products

Like (decent) auto manufacturers who discover latent safety defects, it's always better to admit a potential problem exists, (where warranted) and provide a solution, rather than to deal with the fallout (and much greater expenses to rectify it) later when it gets even more expensive.

As these printers age and accumulate more hours, the chances of another printer experiencing a similar problem is not beyond the realm of possibility.

CCC
Last edited by ccclarke on Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Male Modeler / Sub-Human

Markus64
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Fire safety

Postby Markus64 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:23 pm

@ccclarke: 100% approval!!!!!!

KaneTW
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:57 am

Re: Fire safety

Postby KaneTW » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:46 pm

The connection in my printer is fixed at least. Image

Blue21
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:04 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Fire safety

Postby Blue21 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:42 am

KaneTW wrote:The connection in my printer is fixed at least. Image

Sorry, but your picture cannot be read.
E2 + Prusa Mini (soon) <- UM 2+ <- Replicator2

KaneTW
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:57 am

Re: Fire safety

Postby KaneTW » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:18 pm

Should be available now. The datacenter my server is hosted at had a power outage.

Blue21
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:04 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Fire safety

Postby Blue21 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:34 pm

KaneTW wrote:Should be available now. The datacenter my server is hosted at had a power outage.

Rechecked and it is my antivirus that rejected your link (https :// i . kane . cx / fHddVk) as not safe. Maybe better you attach the picture to a post and then insert it in the post as from your link, it don't look like a picture.
E2 + Prusa Mini (soon) <- UM 2+ <- Replicator2

KaneTW
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:57 am

Re: Fire safety

Postby KaneTW » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:38 am

That's weird. What antivirus are you using and what's the error message? I'll send them a message about a false positive.

Blue21
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:04 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Fire safety

Postby Blue21 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:09 pm

Bitdefender

Infected web page detected
one minute ago

Feature:
Online Threat Prevention

We blocked this dangerous page for your protection:
https://i.kane.cx/
Dangerous pages attempt to install software that can harm the device, gather personal information or operate without your consent.
E2 + Prusa Mini (soon) <- UM 2+ <- Replicator2

KaneTW
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:57 am

Re: Fire safety

Postby KaneTW » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:40 pm

Thanks, I reported the false positive to Bitdefender.

Blue21
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:04 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Fire safety

Postby Blue21 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 am

KaneTW wrote:The connection in my printer is fixed at least. Image

It works now, thanks.
E2 + Prusa Mini (soon) <- UM 2+ <- Replicator2


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