Liquid cooling for everyone

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Wed May 06, 2020 6:07 pm

Update:
There is bad and good news.

The bad news first: E3D does not react in any way to the defective, leaky cooler. I created a video showing the leakage, my dealer (who tries very hard) forwarded the video to E3D. No reaction.
The new acrylic sheet is ready and on the way to me. In terms of dimensions, I am bound to the original radiator. Since I have no desire to spend many days senselessly waiting, today I was looking for an alternative cooler that fit the dimensions. I was amazed to find the exact same cooler at Chinese retailers on eBay and Amazon. Price under $ 8 including shipping. With this sales price, we no longer need to talk about final inspection and quality. In my research, I also found the pump unit to be extremely inexpensive. What does E3D do? They buy the individual components cheapest from China, create a cooling set and hit 200% on them.

My recommendation is therefore not to buy the set from E3D! Get the pump and a tested cooler separately, then you get super quality and save a lot of money!

The good news is that I found a very good replacement radiator that also fits on the holding plate. The radiator is from a well-known manufacturer (ALPHACOOL) and is pressure tested! I will therefore have to revise the procurement list again. To complete it, only two parts are currently missing: the new bracket and the (new) radiator. Either I get both until Saturday, or at the latest until Tuesday.

Then it starts. ;)

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Thu May 07, 2020 9:15 pm

Update:

The holder for the cooling unit will be delivered by DHL on Saturday. A colleague kindly printed the brackets / feet for me. The ALPHACOOL radiator is apparently shipped. I would be very happy if this, namely the last delivery, would come on Saturday too.

Here are a few photos of my construction site. The heat exchangers are installed! The front area open in the pictures will later be closed with a cover. This cover will also be needed later for the cooling pipes.

Image
Image

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Fri May 08, 2020 11:56 am

Update:
The radiator comes after consultation
with ALPHACOOL next Tuesday at the earliest. I'm guessing Wednesday. I could throw up bones. :oops:

A little consolation for me, the mounting plate for the cooling system was delivered today.

Image

User avatar
Pixeldesire3D
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:57 am

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Pixeldesire3D » Sat May 09, 2020 7:04 pm

what adapters did you use on the block for the hose?

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 09, 2020 7:37 pm

Hi Pixeldesire,
I will publish the complete parts list here next week. I'm just waiting for the cooler and as soon as this is here, it starts. Please be patient until then, you and everyone else will get all the information you need for a replica.

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun May 10, 2020 10:30 am

Update:

I would like to share some information and thoughts about water cooling and the installation of such a system in the Pro2 with you.

Most cooling systems have their origin in the PC modding scene and are based on 1/4 "connections. The pumps have a delivery rate of 500 l/h or more, the water hoses are accordingly thick. In a PC system this does not bother me, however in the project "Pro2 Liquid cooled". The reasons are easy to explain: A cooling system with 6/8 mm pipes are oversized and require too much space for a clean installation. Larger hose diameters also mean greater forces to move. For precisely these reasons I have adapted the mod to the Pro2.

I have deliberately avoided installing additional electronics. On the one hand for cost reasons, on the other hand each additional component represents a possible source of error and makes the installation unnecessarily complicated.

The cooling system forms one unit. This unit is located either behind or to the left of the device. The holding plate can be mounted as well.
If necessary, the complete unit can be completely separated from the printer without having to drain the water. I strongly advise against screwing the cooling unit tightly onto the printer!

The entire conversion kit now includes around 35 different parts, some of them multiple.

The thickest chunks are the two miniature heat exchangers. Please team up and organize bulk orders. Larger quantities reduce prices considerably! @Pixeldesire, wouldn't that be a job for you?

Structure your approach!

1. Order the heat exchanger.

2. Order the other parts.

3. If possible, print the STL's that are required or let them print.

4. Wait until you really have ALL parts in front of you.

5. Take your time for the replica and do every step carefully.

To point 2:
Possibly 2 to 3 components are more difficult to obtain than the remaining standard parts. You can switch to alternatives as long as the function delivers the same results.
Anyone who has better ideas is asked to tell everyone else. Ideally in own threads, so that the overview in this thread is not lost.


As soon as this damn radiator is delivered, I start with the remaining assembly and connection work including documentation. I will still test the function of the two flow indicators available and choose one.
Once everything is assembled, the tests follow. The thermal imaging camera records the efficiency of the cooling depending on the nozzle temperature and later publishes it here.

A special bracket that is required is constructed. I want to make this holder as the first test print. If everything fits, this part is also made available for download.

As you can see, this mod takes a lot of time and planning. Due to the corona crisis, my team and I work in shifts. Since I have a late shift next week, the time I have for the project is limited. I therefore ask for your understanding if I do not present a semi-finished manual and parts list.

In retrospect, I'm happy about the leaky cooler. Such a bad component is not worth installing and would have turned out to be a time bomb.

I estimate the level of difficulty of this upgrade as follows:
Anyone who can expand his hot ends, disassemble them, clean and change the nozzles himself, will have no problems with the work!

A few lines about the costs and the reasons for this "upgrade":

The costs of this upgrade are basically reasonable, with the exception of the heat exchangers. Since every SLM print is custom-made, every converted machine is a Unique piece.
The conversion will still be worthwhile, because problems such as heat creep, blockages and insufficient cooling will be eliminated. The cost of a ruined hotend in Germany is around € 100. A throat tube costs around € 40. If you consider the time required for repairs, loss of use, unfinished prints and the trouble you have, the conversion costs are put into perspective.

The upgrade is also an increase in the value of the machine. No insider will buy a used Pro2 or Pro2 Plus without this upgrade at a fair price. Why should he too? He would buy trouble. I would have liked the manufacturer to have reacted quickly after the problem of the hot ends became known and to have constructed a solution like this. You can actually expect that in the price league.

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Tue May 12, 2020 9:39 am

Update:
The ALPHACOOL radiator arrived today.

Since the product pictures on the shop page showed 2 times 6 connection options, I asked ALPHACOOL what was now valid. The written information was that the cooler had 6 connection options and 4 blind plugs were included in the scope of delivery.

Well people, even the "experts" from ALPHACOOL do not know their own products! :shock:
The cooler has two 1/4 "connections on the front and bingo, that's it.

The parts list changes accordingly (I suspected it). Thank God I ordered different 1/4 "hose connections on suspicion and don't start to have to order other connection parts again.

I will contact you again when the conversion has been completed, photographically documented and all tests (hopefully) have been passed.

This is followed by the exact procurement list and the pictures of the installation and test results.

Until then, stay healthy!


Image

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Tue May 12, 2020 7:12 pm

Guys, you won't believe it: this time the cooler is okay, super quality, but an 90° fitting has a haarline crack. Exactly this part I do not have twice and can now wait for a replacement! I'm getting crazy!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
Last edited by Markus64 on Wed May 13, 2020 7:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Pixeldesire3D
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:57 am

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Pixeldesire3D » Tue May 12, 2020 11:53 pm

you're missing an elbow for the tubing? lol, always expect the worst and hope for the best.

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Thu May 14, 2020 9:29 am

Update:

The replacement for the defective connection came today, the cooling unit is ready.
Since I have a late shift today and vacation tomorrow, the water cooling will be put into operation and tested tomorrow.

Image

Image

Naser404
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Naser404 » Thu May 14, 2020 5:09 pm

Great work bro, i like it, nice and tidy :D

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Thu May 14, 2020 6:11 pm

Naser404 wrote:Great work bro, i like it, nice and tidy :D


@Naser404, thank you very much :)

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Thu May 14, 2020 8:03 pm

Hi Guys,
I couldn't wait until tomorrow and have now started up the cooling system.

The bad news first:
The problem of heat creep or insufficient cooling is now a thing of the past! :mrgreen:

And here are the good News! :D

The system is 1.) tightly working 2.) almost inaudible and 3.) it exceeds my expectations.

See for yourself

Start of the test, both nozzles 28 ° C

Image

Nozzels 100°C

Image

Nozzels 150°C

Image

Nozzels 200°C

Image

Nozzels 250°C

Image

Nozzels 300°C

Image

Temperature of the heat exchanger (right nozzle) at a nozzle temperature of 300 ° C

Image

I can touch the heat exchanger at 300 ° C nozzle temperature and it feels "cold".

Image

My biggest concern was that the reduced pipe cross-section and the associated reduced water flow was not sufficient for cooling. My concerns are unfounded. The system has a flow volume of around 150 l / h.

I think I did a good job :D :D :D

The list of all components follows tomorrow.

User avatar
Pixeldesire3D
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:57 am

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Pixeldesire3D » Fri May 15, 2020 4:29 pm

amazing work! your system is incredibly well put together, super clean. The before and after images are perfect. I have my coolers coming in on the 18th and look forward to building your cooling system for my end.

thank you for sharing your work

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Fri May 15, 2020 4:47 pm

@Pixeldesire,
Thank you for your praise, I am happy if you like my work. The Pro2 has been printing continuously this morning without grumbling and in the best quality.

I am currently printing the final version of an important bracket that will be attached to the extruder. My wife saw the 2nd prototype assembled and thought it was already assembled at the factory * lol *.

The list with all components is ready and will go online as soon as I have time; I guess I'll get started in 3 - 5 hours.

I will submit two additions as an STL, but these are not absolutely necessary, so I treat myself to a free weekend.

jean-claude
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby jean-claude » Fri May 15, 2020 6:45 pm

Congratulations again for this wonderful work that makes you want to follow you !
Obviously, as I have an N2+ it will have to adapt a little.
Some risk ;o) because I don't have your talent !
I have a question about the cooling capacity during very long prints:
I do not know well the unit that you use but it seems to me that it refrigerates the fluid by an air circulation (fan)
Although it is possible to increase the capacity of the reservoir (buffer) of fluid and then benefit from greater inertia, is there no risk that the fluid rises in temperature and then falsifies the other parameters?
Why not have used a PELTIER plate or "Ice Cream little compressor" for for example?
Again thank you for sharing.
Regards,
Jean Claude

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:36 pm

Hello Jean Claude and thank you for your compliment.

The CAD file from mdana as well as mine can easily be modified for the N2 or N2 +. Here in the forum there are fantastic designers who can do this. Just take the initiative!

It is not necessary to enlarge the buffer. This cooling system can easily supply the N series as well as the Pro series. My Pro 2 LC has been printing continuously for 12 hours now and the water in the reservoir has a temperature of 21 ° C. The radiator from ALPHACOOL and the almost silent fan do a great job. Of course, cooling with Peltier elements would be possible, but what would be the advantage? A Peltier cooling system requires a lot of electricity, would be really loud due to the fans and, apart from noise and additional costs, has no advantage. The cooling system I presented is simple, very efficient, almost silent and inexpensive to buy. I recommend the saved money for a mod of the print bed. ;)

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:21 pm

Hi guys, as announced the list of all components:

Image

Image

Image

https://www.alphacool.com/wheretobuy

ALPHACOOL also sells some of the fittings.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Schlauchhalter-16-17mm-blau/191745697019?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Image

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001CJP1TS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Model building accessories, hydraulic connections

https://www.der-getriebedoktor.de/en/smc-m-5h-4-miniatur-fitting-straight-m5-oe-4-0-mm

Image

Model building accessories, hydraulic connections
https://www.ttm-shop.de/katalog/artikelinfo/494571/hydraulische-schnellkupplung-fuer-3_4mm-schlauch-_56033

Image

Image

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07V9XK8CF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://www.ebay.de/itm/DC12V-10W-Computer-PC-CPU-Wasserkuehlung-Cooling-Wassertank-Wasserpumpe-500L-H/163512152884

Image


Except for the model construction hydraulic connections, everything can be found on Ebay or Amazon.

Pictures, tips and comments on the conversion of the printer will follow in the coming days. Likewise the STL's and the file for lasering the acrylic plate.

If you want to carry out the modification as successfully as I do, I recommend that you strictly adhere to the material specifications. Especially regarding the cooling lines !!!!
Last edited by Markus64 on Wed May 27, 2020 7:50 am, edited 4 times in total.

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Fri May 15, 2020 10:01 pm

Closing time for today.
The bracket for the transition of the cooling lines is finished and was trickier than expected. I am satisfied with the result.

Image

Image

Markus64
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 16, 2020 10:50 am

Someone may have noticed that an important, safety-relevant part is missing from the list of components: the flow indicator.

The reason for this is trivial. All flow indicators I tested are not able to display flow rates of 150 l / h. 99% of these indicators are of the most primitive design and require a high flow rate to move the show wheel. The storage of the wheel is simple plastic etc. etc.

Nothing is impossible, so I'll build a high-precision optical flow indicator - specifically for this project. The flow indicator can be retrofitted at any time later. Components and STL's are then available for download.


Return to “Pro2 Series”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests