Liquid cooling for everyone

guigui4913
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:34 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby guigui4913 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:02 pm

Hello

I think I have the same problem with some of my filament on N2. I'm drawing heat exhanger for N2 watercooling. I will print in first time in PLA for test.
Watercooling hot end 3.png


pipe in heat exchanger
Watercooling hot end v3.png
Watercooling hot end v3.png (11.66 KiB) Viewed 3165 times

Watercooling hot end face.png
Watercooling hot end face.png (9.74 KiB) Viewed 3165 times

Watercooling hot end v4.png

Kurtyard
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Kurtyard » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:43 pm

So, liquid cooling is up and running. 2x270C @hotend but the throat tube feels........cold. Cold like ex wifes, means: really cold.
Thanks a lot to Markus64 and Akoetzle for support, and all the others who contributed to the liquid cooling with their mods and ideas.

I chose a different mounting and tube routing, see the pictures. I didn't drill, i didn't saw, i didn't glue, i didn't grind :mrgreen:
I used 2 screws, the rest is done with clips. All components are still to access.

To increase lifetime i put the tube on top of the chain, the tube can move in it's direction as it gets longer and shorter related to the printheads position. This produces less stress inside the material. I consider the tubing as a maintenance part, i will replace it after 6 month.

For the last segment i chose silicone tube material to prevent any stress for the nozzle switching mechanics. A stiff tube would transfer the lifting move to the distribution plate, which is very close in this construction.

The printers USB switches the pump on-off, so i can't forget the switching on, in my age considered as normal.
Attachments
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2.8.jpg
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Kurtyard
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Kurtyard » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:48 pm

3 more pictures - routing detail - chain support mod - USB signal
Attachments
4.jpg
5.jpg
7.jpg

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:05 pm

Very clean and well thought out implementation! I congratulate you on the mod and look forward to testimonials! Do you also provide the STL's? I think it would be great if there were as many alternatives as possible. :mrgreen:

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:28 pm

guigui4913 wrote:Hello,

I think I have the same problem with some filament on N2. I'm drawing heat exchanger for N2 watercolling system. I will print in PLA for test.


@guigui4913, you're welcome! :)

Update:

My water cooling project is coming to an end. The water coolers for the two extruder motors arrived today - fortunately 3 weeks earlier than expected. The fit and workmanship is very good. For the price you don’t make things yourself. Tomorrow I’ll plug everything in and take pictures.

Here is the link to the parts:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000211786235.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Gploogle_7_shopping&aff_atform=google&aff_short_key=17858&aff_aff_atform=google&aff_short_key=Uneal88&aff_short_key=Uneal8657&aff_short_key=Uneal88&aff_short_key=Uneal%20de4000211786235%20&%20netw%20=%20u%20&%20device%20=%20c%20&%20albpg%20=%20539263010115%20&%20albpd%20=%20de4000211786235%20&%20gclid%20=%20Cj0KCQjwqrb7BRDlARIsACwGad6vHRubmjnNEhLT8pW4luhsPApUZUpHkw8COP

Kühler 1.JPG

Kühler 3.JPG

Kühler 2.JPG

Paul123
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Paul123 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:07 am

Hi everyone,

I'm the next one getting involved in the watercooling-topic. After i have the same filament issues with the Pro2 like EVERYBODY, who tries printing high temperature filament over a longer period than a few hours.

It seems that that raise3d will not care about these issues, but if we all show how it should be done, we maybe can create a sort of standard for the next generation of printers in this market segment, so that companies like raise3d cannot pass over this feature in future.

Core part of every water cooling project certainly is the heat exchanger. I built my own one in one working day. Although the part is not too heavy in general, my goal was to build it as lightweight as possible. My version has 9g without screws and fittings. Next step is a pressure test outside of the printer. I'll keep you informed about my version as soon as i have all the parts.

Good luck everybody!!

a608ff0d-21a4-4169-ac4c-66db1adf7abf.jpg

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:39 am

@Paul123: A very neat job, you know your craft! I am looking forward to seeing the further development of your modification here. I would be happy if other users show their work here and write a few words about it. ;)

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:09 am

Update:
The heat exchangers for the extruder motors are installed, locked and SEAL!
A five hour test print ran smoothly with a very clean print result.
Without cooling, the left extruder motor (low-level setting) heated up to 42.2 ° C and with cooling to 28.4 ° C. That corresponds to almost 33% temperature reduction. The delta T increased from 2 ° C to 3 ° C. So the cooling system is still more under-challenged than overwhelmed.

The components are cooled according to priority:

1. left Hotend
2. right Hotend
3. left Extruder motor
4. right Extruder motor

I was able to make an interesting observation that I actually didn't expect. The first test print was over-extruded, so I had to reduce the flow rate by 9%. I will check this with other materials and profiles on occasion.

vt_00011.jpg

vt_00013.jpg

IMG_20200927_112616.jpg

IMG_20200927_112638.jpg

IMG_20200927_112756.jpg

Kurtyard
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Kurtyard » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:21 pm

Great job, looks complex, but tidy up! I try to keep the weight of the cooling for the moment as low as possible @the printhead until i experience problems caused by the extruder temperature, which i didn‘t so far. I can think of extruder problems, which are actually caused downwards by a bad cooling of the throat tube. I have to admit not to use PLA so much. What tube diamater do you use, looks bigger than 4mm, might be an optical illusion..

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:13 pm

@Kurtyard, thanks for your kind feedback.
In fact, the hoses of the cooling plates have a diameter of 5/4 mm instead of 4/3 mm like the other lines. Well recognized! ;)

In terms of weight, I've even improved, the two cooling plates are together lighter than the aluminum heatsinks that were attached before. By the way, some dealers recommend attaching these aluminum parts to get the heat development under control. There must have been massive problems in the beginning. The problem arises from the effect of heat on the friction drive of the filament. The material can become soft and then it becomes uncomfortable. :evil:
For fun, I recommend every user to measure the temperature of the stepper motors. Values ​​above 50 ° C are questionable in the long term.
I also recommend measuring the temperatures of the steppers of the linear drives.
Mine get really hot after 2 hours of printing, which has a direct effect on the service life of the motors. I have therefore decided to actively cool these two engines as well.

breezer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:20 am

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby breezer » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:57 am

Hello,

I am also thinking about doing this mod. After several extruder jams with PLA I have done the fan mod of ocelot27:

https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=16207

With this fan mod I have had no problems with PLA until now.

But what bothers me is the massive ozzing of the nozzles when I want to print e.g. nylon or PVA. This is a problem especially with dual printings with the unused nozzle, which is why I did not use dual printings until now.
Does the water cooling system bring improvements regarding the oozing of the nozzles?

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:28 pm

@breezer,
I also installed the mod from ocelot27. At temperatures above 240 ° C, even with this modification, the nozzle clogged after a short time. For my part, I can confirm that oozing is no longer a nuisance or me since the conversion to water cooling. I would be very happy if the other users who followed me would describe their experiences.

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:35 pm

Update:

Information on the active cooling of the extruder motors. When planning the water cooling, the hotends had 100% priority. I knew that there were thermal problems with the extruder motors. The "fan upgrade" was recommended to me when I bought it. That thing was crap, which is why I turned to heat sinks and fans. The temperature dropped and I checked the point.
Now that the water cooling of the hotends works fantastic, the idea occurred to me to include the extruder motors in the water cycle. The adjustment went smoothly and the first test prints followed.
I noticed that the printer was over-extruding. Further tests with other filaments confirm my observation.

My conclusion is that in the original state the heat makes the filament softer and thus the advance of the friction drive suffers.
This would also explain why soft filaments such as TPU are more difficult to print.

I would never have thought that the cooling of the two motors would be so clearly reflected in the printing operation.
In the meantime I have done many prints to my complete satisfaction.
The quality of the prints has again improved significantly. If I compare the quality before and after the modifications, nobody would believe that it is the same printer model. It is really fantastic!

Raise gave away a lot of potential !!! I hope the developers read along here from time to time and it brings tears to their eyes.

Another piece of information about filament and "approved filaments".
Six weeks ago I bought a cheap PLA filament for 16 bucks. I unpacked it and put it next to a sloping window. Sometimes there was up to 70% humidity and I did nothing to protect the PLA from moisture.
I used it to print longer filament holders today and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the quality. The Pro2 printed the material with no complaints or problems.

Folks, the first time I've bought this printer I'm really happy with this part. But what a birth ...

Skyline41rus
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:09 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Skyline41rus » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:15 am

)))

akoetzle
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby akoetzle » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:37 pm

So, now, i added the cooling for the steppers using the copper cooling plates from Ali show on post from Markus64.
Also i changed the lining of hoses to on-top as show from Kurtyard.

Thanks for the inspiration. Now testing is on.

I bought the Dforce Titan AQUA Wasser Kühlung Kit from Ali LINK
This one is my next try to reduce my little oversized cooling station. So stay tuned.....
Attachments
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Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:24 pm

@akoetzle,
neatly implemented, I like your modification! I am curious if you can confirm my observation regarding the corrections to the flow rate. I would be very happy if I could report whether the Pro2 prints better and more reliably with cooling than without. Was the modification worth it?

Kurtyard
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Kurtyard » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:15 pm

Great job! The "Ali" cooling unit looks tiny, for shure it will do the job...btw , the tube quick-lock is convenient, but it is to the account of throughput, it reduces the througput by more than 50% - i decided to replace it with standard tube connectors. But even with reduced flow it's more cooling than needed. I did it to get the flowmeter in more action..

timmyg247
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:00 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby timmyg247 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:20 pm

Markus64 wrote:@akoetzle,
neatly implemented, I like your modification! I am curious if you can confirm my observation regarding the corrections to the flow rate. I would be very happy if I could report whether the Pro2 prints better and more reliably with cooling than without. Was the modification worth it?


I dont know how to PM on here but would like the files so i can send this out to be printed. thank you for sharing great work.

Markus64
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:39 pm

timmyg247 wrote:
Markus64 wrote:@akoetzle,
neatly implemented, I like your modification! I am curious if you can confirm my observation regarding the corrections to the flow rate. I would be very happy if I could report whether the Pro2 prints better and more reliably with cooling than without. Was the modification worth it?


I dont know how to PM on here but would like the files so i can send this out to be printed. thank you for sharing great work.


@Tim,
I sent you the download link as a pm.
The STEP file is the current version.

Welcome to the water coolers! :mrgreen:

breezer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:20 am

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby breezer » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:53 pm

Hello all,

I am also planning the water cooling mod. For this I have bought aluminium coolers for the stepper motors. These weigh 38 grams, can anyone tell me how heavy the copper coolers are that some have used here?


Sincerely
Attachments
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