Liquid cooling for everyone

jean-claude
Posts: 35
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Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby jean-claude » Sat May 16, 2020 12:11 pm

Markus64 wrote:...cooling with Peltier elements would be possible, but what would be the advantage? A Peltier cooling system requires a lot of electricity, would be really loud due to the fans and, apart from noise and additional costs, has no advantage.


In fact, I was thinking of cooling the fluid without a fan but if the system "holds up" then it's perfect!
Far be it from me to modify what works: o)))


"...The cooling system I presented is simple, very efficient, almost silent and inexpensive to buy..."
Sure, I Agree !

"...I recommend the saved money for a mod of the print bed. ;)"
YES !

Great work !

Markus64
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 16, 2020 2:18 pm

Thank you very much Jean Claude, you're welcome! :)

Finally on the subject of Peltier: They even need one or two fans. As I said, that doesn't make any technical sense.
Have fun with the replica! ;)

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Pixeldesire3D
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Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Pixeldesire3D » Sat May 16, 2020 6:27 pm

would you be able to provide links to some of the parts purchased

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 16, 2020 6:42 pm

@Pixeldesire,
the links I have will not be of much use to you because ebay german, amazon german etc.

I have therefore created the images in such a way that
1. you can clearly see what it is and and you have the exact name of the part.
2. you can use Google's image search. You remove the text and upload the image in the Google search. Goggle will then show you all the hits. So you can search for the components in your country.
The search for all components took more time for me than the complete conversion!

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Pixeldesire3D
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Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Pixeldesire3D » Sat May 16, 2020 8:43 pm

cant seems to find half the stuff on Amazon US. usually copying the technical name from German Amazon to US yields better results.

mdana
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:36 am

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby mdana » Sat May 16, 2020 8:57 pm

Pixeldesire3D wrote:cant seems to find half the stuff on Amazon US. usually copying the technical name from German Amazon to US yields better results.

You can find tubing and fittings on McMaster-Carr. I can try and put together a list of the parts I used, but I don’t have the printer in front of me (office is shutdown at the moment) and wasn’t as organized as Markus64 when I put mine together.

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:00 pm

Pixeldesire3D wrote:cant seems to find half the stuff on Amazon US. usually copying the technical name from German Amazon to US yields better results.



I copy the links to the pictures.

jean-claude
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby jean-claude » Sun May 17, 2020 8:19 am

Markus64 wrote:Finally on the subject of Peltier: They even need one or two fans. As I said, that doesn't make any technical sense.


I'm sorry, but I thought:
The PELTIER system can be used in AIR / AIR exchanger (and then fans are needed) or, also, in AIR / WATER exchanger and in this case since we want to cool water it is not always necessary to use a fan it is possible to regulate with the voltage / amperage see the alternation of voltage it depends on the temperature delta that one wishes to obtain.

But it does not matter, if your calculations on the dissipation of the heat produced by the heads can be compensated with the capacity of the cooling by fluid. How much of W the manufacturer indicates it for his system ?

Anyway, the calculations can also be replaced by pioneer experimentation! Thanks to you: o)

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun May 17, 2020 10:07 am

@ Jean Claude,
did you look at the pictures of the thermal imager? If not, please take a closer look at them. The cooling system works highly effectively. It doesn't matter whether you use it to cool a Pro or Pro +. The energy requirement of the pump and fan together is 5.5 W / 0.063 A. If you absolutely want to do the cooling with Peltier modules - do it and share your experience here in the community.

jean-claude
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby jean-claude » Sun May 17, 2020 12:21 pm

No, that is not my intention at all!

Since you see that the system does not lack power in refrigeration there is no reason to do otherwise.

It is however surprising that with such a low refrigeration capacity, a temperature of 250 ° (ABS) can be compensated for a long time.

If I had to go towards more power, I would probably not use a PELTIER system like for example
https://pitch-technologies.fr/produits/ ... ectriques/
I would rather turn, mainly for a cost issue, towards the recovery of a household ice-cream compressor for ice cream.

Please provide to us some feedback for this superb work.
And, I imagine of those which will follow like the lightening of the portico (weight of the heads and accessories) as well as the leveling of the bed.

In view of the quality of your achievement this can only be great.
Good work.

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun May 17, 2020 1:10 pm

@ jean-claude, the real hammer in cooling is its efficiency. At a nozzle temperature of 300 ° C, I measured a 27 ° C water temperature on the right heat exchanger (cooling water coming out!). This means that the cooling system is underwhelmed rather than overwhelmed. The printer passed the 24 hour test with flying colors. No leaks, no filament problems.

What is extremely annoying is the loud radial fan. The hardware for the conversion is already ready. 8-)

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Tue May 19, 2020 1:33 pm

Update:
The hose management bracket still had to be optimized. I now print prototype No. 20 and hope that everything fits now. The holder will consist of two parts. Pictures and STL's will follow if everything fits as I imagine.

The subject of flow indicators / flow indicators. The part is indispensable because it is safety-relevant for cooling. I have now decided on a small electronic solution. A sensor that I need is brand new and will only be delivered in three weeks. We are meanwhile building the rest. The display will be digitally displayed and built in such a way that the display can be set up or glued to a freely selectable location on the printer. I have to construct a few other little things, print and check for fit, then I start to publish the instructions.

The printer continues to work fantastically with water cooling.

Markus64
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:37 pm

Update:

The holder for the hose manager is now finally finished.

I spent hours constructing this holder. Under no circumstances should the hoses be attached to any clips, but should be guided in order to maintain full mobility.

I release the print files for download.

This is how it looks without a special hose guide ...

Image

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The final version of the hose guide is printed ...

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Support removed

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A threaded sleeve m3 x 4 x 3 mm is melted into the bore ...

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The "fender" is screwed on.
(adjustable in height)

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Now the holder is mounted on the extruder and the hoses are placed in the guides.

Image

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Clip 4 mm
Image
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4388991

Clip 5 mm
Image
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4388997

Hose coupling holder
Image
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4389003

"Fender"
Image
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4388998

Hose manager
Image
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4398326

There will be more files to download tomorrow.
Last edited by Markus64 on Tue May 26, 2020 11:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

Naser404
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Naser404 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:13 pm

Very nice and clean job, can you try printing PLA with LID on and see if it works for a couple of hours :)

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:22 pm

Thank you very much Naser404,
The printer works perfectly with all tested filaments. A 48 hour print test was mastered without problems - with LID on. :)

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sat May 23, 2020 10:50 pm

Since my first video of the lighting mod did not work well, I filmed another one. Now it should be easier to see how much the LED can be dimmed (continuously). Although it has nothing to do with water cooling, but who cares ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7QGO3Ao2Qc

Markus64
Posts: 202
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Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:48 am

Today we come to the data files of the cooling unit and modification of the hood

Image

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4391570

Base left and right
Image
Base right: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4391556
Base left: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4391554

This is what the base should look like afterwards
Image

Modification of the hood
The hood must be released at the point where the water pipes come out of the energy chain
Image

Markus64
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Sun May 31, 2020 9:50 am

Hey guys
the STL's with the most important components for the assembly of the cooling water hoses, as well as for the construction of the cooling unit I have provided in a posting above.
Of course, you should make these parts BEFORE remodeling the printer!
Let's start today with the assembly of the heat exchangers and the preparation of the hotends.

Image

On the threads of the hose nipples a drop of sealant is added, then the nipples are screwed into the heat exchangers. Please with a lot of feeling, because after firm comes off!
Let it dry for an hour!

Image

Preparing the Hotends:
In order to make the Throattube and the nozzle more easily removed later, the threads are topped with copper paste and both are mounted in the aluminium body.

Image
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If the nozzle and throat tube are adjusted and tightened tightly, the intake of the Throattube is coated with thermal paste and then screwed with the heat exchanger.

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Checks with a thin piece of cardboard that both heat exchangers at the back do not bump into anything.

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Information on the cooling lines:
This system uses three different cooling lines.

1. The silicone hoses of the pump and the cooler
2. The PVC hose, departing from the pump to the extruder transfer point
3. The hose of an infusion, starting from the transfer point to the heat exchangers

Why the hose of an infusion line?
Quite simply, because this hose has the same dimensions as the PVC hose, but is more flexible.
The PVC hose, on the other hand, is more optimal for installation by the energy chain.

I have prepared the PVC hoses as follows:
Two long pieces with approx. 2.50 m each cut. Pulled the tissue hose over it. Blue for the cold line, red for the warm line. I cut off the fabric hose so that 25 cm of the hose remained bare at each end. To prevent the fabric from being french, I have sealed the cutting edges at the ends (cautious!!!) with shrink tube. Here you have to be hellishly careful, otherwise the inner PVC hose deforms!
Opens all clips of the energy chain and now lays the lines. I laid the blue line at the top and the red line at the bottom.

Image
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Preparation of the cooling unit:
The acrylic holding plate and the feet are only plugged together.
The holders for the pump screwed on, and the pump plugged into the brackets.
The spacers are screwed into the cooler. But beware: it is important to make sure that the threads do not damage the slats of the cooler!
On the front side, the fan can then be screwed on with protective grille and the fittings for the water pipes. Please tighten everything tightly and emotionally!

Image
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In the small black box I have placed the wiring for the fan of the cooler and the pump. Later, the supply line for the electronic flow meter is added. It is up to each individual to decide how to solve this. Either print a box yourself or buy it as a finished part. I had to buy because my printer was disassembled at the time.

In my next posting I explain the rest of the conversion.

Markus64
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby Markus64 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:26 pm

Hey guys
today we come to the conclusion of the installation description.

As can be seen from the material list, I use miniature plug-in couplings for hydraulic connections.

These hydraulic couplings close on one side when the connection is opened.
The couplings are installed once after the pump's shut-off taps and once after leaving the energy chain. Due to this design, the pump can be easily disconnected from the printer without any notable water leakage. If work on the heat exchangers is necessary, these lines can also be separated from the main lines without any problems.

As can be seen in the pictures, the cables are laid in generous loops, so that can be shortened if necessary and above all the freedom of movement of the lines is always guaranteed. You can clearly see this at the point where the cables leave the energy chain and are attached to the hose manager.
The hoses from the hose manager to the heat exchangers and back are the hoses of the infusion line. No other material is as ideal for this as this plastic mixture.

TIP: The hoses are only laid when the main lines coming from the energy chain are provisionally attached to the hose manager. Then transfer hose after hose to the heat exchangers, then shorten and assemble. Please make sure that small loops are laid here as well and that the hoses are not tightly mounted! You can see this very closely in my pictures. The cables to the hot ends are also laid in such a way that the hoses keep themselves close to the extruder housing.

The photo of the pump unit is self-explained. Whoever has made it to this point will recognize the location and function of the components.
The temporary flow meter can still be seen in the picture. The electronic pedant is later mounted at this location.

The last component for the flow display was delivered by post today. When we finish the prototype, the following features will be available:
    * Display of flow and how high it is.
    * Warning if there is NO flow! (optical and acoustic)
    * Temperature display for cold and warm water.
    * The display electronics can be placed anywhere on the printer itself or next to the printer.

Image
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The area on the back is not yet permanently laid, as I want to install the flow sensor and the temperature sensors first.
When this is done and the display unit is ready. I will post pictures of the completed unit.

Another comment on the conversion to water cooling:
The filament behaves differently in some cases than before the modification.
For example, I had to reduce the flow rate of original Raise3D standard PLA from 90% to 80%, otherwise it will be over-extruded.

I would appreciate feedback, especially from users upgrading your Pro2 to a Pro2 LC.
Show your pictures! Have you made further improvements? Show them and make them available to the community. A little more communication would be nice.
;)

... one question still concerns me... are the guys from Raise3D involved?
I am surprised that nothing comes from the manufacturer.

jean-claude
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Liquid cooling for everyone

Postby jean-claude » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:01 pm

Hi Markus,

Thank you once again for all this feedback and all this information.

> A little more communication would be nice.;)
Yes, but what can we say about this masterful work ? I can just prepare to try to do the same (and not before September unfortunately).

"... one question still concerns me ... are the guys from Raise3D involved?
I am surprised that nothing comes from the manufacturer. "


There, we have a "different" attitude: I am not at all surprised !

I stay tuned !


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