Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

KS_Husker
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:32 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby KS_Husker » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:13 pm

Naser404 wrote:
Wait till you need to replace the touch screen, its about $1000, thats what happened to mine and i just wont replace it and will have to settle for remote use.


Ya, I just decided to let this thing be a brick for now until I decide what to do with it. Probably better to just sell it as is and get what I can out of it. I'm buying a $250 printer on ebay instead of these boards, that will work just as good (actually better) than this pro2. I can't even make it work with just one extruder because of the messed up way they have the thing configured and designed. That really sucks!!

Hope others learn from this and steer clear. I don't know why they can't just sell you the replacement parts at their cost instead of trying to gouge their customers for even more money when it's their own fault that these things are failing. I think by brushing around the heating element to clean the extruder, it shorted something out on the boards. Why should that cause an issue. That's just stupid!!

batab
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:16 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby batab » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:01 pm

KS_Husker wrote:I just found out that my printer needs a new extruder board and motion controller board. Another $470 and it is still within the year that I purchased the machine but they only warranty things that actually may fail for 90 days so neither are covered. NICE!!!

I have to say I am very disappointed. This is also after I found out that I had a runaway heating rod that could have burned my house down if I didn't stay and watch the machine start the print. I had heard this could be an issue and figured they had it fixed by now. All firmware and software was up to date also. Way to go Raise3D!! I was pushing everyone I knew to buy one of these printers and now I will be doing the opposite. Very dangerous machine, and poorly conceived. Also ridiculous that they won't cover things like this and don't have a better way to keep them protected from failure. I should never have to spend this kind of money to get this machine going again. That's a huge chunk of the total cost of the machine.


Wait, what? If the failure is not due to customer misuse, it must be covered with a 1-year warranty. Unless you bought it from "weird" resellers.

I think you should re-contact the R3D support or their local distributor.

Heckler
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:17 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Heckler » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:51 am

If they would just open source the firmware the community would fix a good portion of the issues, what are they trying to protect? failure?

jimdurt
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:22 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby jimdurt » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:30 pm

Wish I could have help steer you clear. Customer Service is horrible. I bought 2 Pro2 Plus and have had nothing but problems. Parts are expensive. The 1 year warranty does not cover electronics. My control board failed within 9 months. Had to buy a replacement out of my own pocket. And it had a problem. Waiting on another one as we speak.

1) Replaced control board 2 times.
2) Replaced extruder board because Customer Service did not know what was causing the Board Error: Temperature fault.
3) Stepper drive disconnected out of the box. Had to flip on side, disassemble and reconnect.
4) 1 of the beds was not level. Took several hours to dial it in just right.
5) Broken multiple motor couplers. Finally replaced all of the aluminum couplers with stainless steel. The aluminum couplers fatigue fracture way to soon on my machines. May be due to misalignment of motor and drive shafts.
6) Nozzle tip was not installed correctly from factory. Plastic oozed out above the heat sink on the hot end. Completely engulfing the nozzles. Was a pain to clean and repair. There is a post with pictures on here somewhere.
7) Retraction is a non starter on my machines. I turn it off to prevent clogs and grinding through filament. I have tested and adjusted until I dont care if I ever use that setting again.
8) Replacement control board has problem with X axis terminal. Will not let printer move in Negative direction. Waiting on a replacement again.
9) Nozzle continues to switch mid print even though I only have right nozzle programmed for print.

We own (10) Lulzbot Taz 5, (2) Pro2 Plus and (1) Creality 3d Ender 3. The Ender 3 out performs all of them. Lulzbot has the absolute best tech and customer support in the industry. Most friendly people you will ever talk to.

drarhiii3
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:45 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby drarhiii3 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:32 am

I join forums and normally don't post reviews or spend time submitting replies, but at this point I believe this is necessary and hope someone not only reads through these posts, but takes the advice of others (which is what I wish I had done before my purcahses). I tend to stay away from negative feedback on products, because there are always pessimists and those that like to flame small problems without understanding what it is they are even talking about. Having said that, I expect minor issues here and there from ANY company as there are going to be failures due to the sheer billions of import parts that are used in ALL mechanical/electrical machines today. Having said that, I purchased the Pro2 Plus and Pro2 less than 3 months ago....and certainly not my idea of quality for the price.
I've spent more time tuning and tinkering than I wanted to at this price point. I have two other printers in the $1500 price range that work flawlessly everytime. They have a smaller build volume which is why I wanted a large format, but had I known what issues I was buying into, I would've put the thousands of dollars into other projects. Nonetheless, after days of working on both printers in the last couple of months and at least an additional $1000 in parts...I'm now having failed print after failed print (out of left field) due to the extruder stopping in the first 5 minutes using Atomic PETG, Raise3d and Matter Hackers Pro PLA. I will say I am not surprised as I have learned to expect random consistent problrems that have ranged from a failed main board to hot ends loosening up oozing/twisting (could start an entire new thread on the lack of engineering and design intent that went into these hot ends, but I am sure there are several out there already).

I will continue to work through these problems as I have a lot invested in their marketing scheme and I'm not ready to throw in the towel, but at this point because of the inconsistent reliability, these printers have become a timesink and very discouraging to use. You never know if you're going to get a perfect print or a dumpster fire of issues when you leave the room. Forget the money at this point and the additional 2 years RaiseShield I purchased for both printers, I just don't have the time to troubleshoot and tinker with two machines that have performed less than 50% of the time I have owned them.

So unless, you want to spend a lot of time/money babysitting and tinkering simple prints for mechanical/electrical issues that the support doesn't seem to help out with or takes multiple days to resolve, I suggest you pass and look elsewhere.

Markus64
Posts: 343
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Markus64 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:36 pm

I bought the Pro2 commercially because I believed in the many advertising promises.
A 3D printer of this price range must be a neatly constructed and well thought-out "workhorse" – I thought...
After a week of testing, however, it was clear that I had acquired a lot of problems for a lot of money.
My first contact with the support was also the last one. I was denied support requests on the grounds that, as a foreigner, I should contact my German dealer. There would be cultural as well as linguistic barriers.

Aha….

What does itite my dealer if I have problems with the printer? At first he poses ignorantly and refers to the many satisfied customers who work with the device completely without any problems. I am the first to have problems. The trader has sold, got his money and my problems don't matter as if a bag of rice falls over in China! If he does not sell a Raise3D printer, he will simply sell the device from another manufacturer in the future. That's how it works!

The behaviour the support showed was arrogant and cheeky.

On my Pro2, the Print Plate bent so much that the jets pulled through the filament like ploughs. Normal printing was simply not possible.
The coating of the plate threw bubbles and the handle got strong cracks.
Blockages of the nozzles were standard. Printing overnight is therefore a risk.
The overall soundscape is an imposition.
The firmware is unloving and partly headless programmed, my box needed a handful of resets on the factory settings since February to get back on track.
Because I bought the printer commercially, I could not easily exercise my right of withdrawal. In Germany, as a customer, I have to prove gross defects to the manufacturing. This means that nothing would happen without a lawyer and a court.
I didn't want to do that and started to eliminate the worst defects myself.
There is no need to ask questions to support for undocumented connections, because they are not answered
I designed a news printer bed to be leveled manually. I can only laugh at "pre calibrated" of the original version.
Afterwards I found a solution to cool the mainly used left extruder motor,
modified the lighting and installed the water cooling.
Previous material costs approx. 1000,- €. Loss of use of the printer so far 4 weeks, working time for conversions and construction and tests about 100 hours.
An absurdity, a device of this price range with a lot of money and commitment to modify it first so that it works as expected!
Industrial Grade? NEVER!
What's the point of a cloud if the printer isn't built and works the way it should work?
Continue with the software. Ideamaker is certainly not bad, but it has become confusing in its application. There is also an urgent need for action here!

Naser404
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Naser404 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:47 pm

What really bothers me is that support never actually acknowledge the problem that are reported by so many users on the forums and rather ask you to contact support or open a ticket or even they send you replacements parts.

These however "DONT'' fix the issue all these people reported on the forum so obviously there is a design flow and they need to man up and either fix it or provide replacements even if we had to pay for them rather then spend countless hours and money doing lots of modifications like Markus and others did to have the printer running as it should be.

Funny how they don't see that this with time with catch up with them and credibility will be lost and customers too.

I already sold one of them and informed the guy who bought it that it has major issues and now I'm stuck with one that has a broken touch screen and i am not willing to pay another $1000, and yes that's nearly the price of a new one.

Steadipanda
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 11:41 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Steadipanda » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:15 pm

mine has temperature fault too.
IF i need to print something I have to preheat it in 5c increment now until desired temp, then hit print. it takes me 30 mins at least cuz my bed is 110c........
replaced extruder board twice. same problem

Matt14
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:32 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Matt14 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:20 pm

I have been having a thermal issue with both extruders having a temperature fluctuation of 30+ C. The printer has been down for 3 weeks and I've replaced both thermocouples, motion board, extruder board, and a couple ribbon cables probably putting 10 hours into these troubleshooting steps. They didn't know what else to do so they are shipping a whole new printer. The new printer probably won't arrive until next week so I have been out a printer for almost a month. Fairly dissapointed and it looks like I'll probably have to deal with more issues in the future if this thread is any indication.

Stalebread2008
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:56 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Stalebread2008 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:49 pm

Kinda late, but I have an E2, and I have also noticed some strange odd quality issues, that are making me question the sourcing of the products. From a 3500$ printer, I would expect more, not a floppy linear rail, an extruder that won't print PVA and other filaments, and some other odd things. I feel like I just got a Kickstarter printer because of all these problems.

Steadipanda
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 11:41 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Steadipanda » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:24 pm

agree. my prusa mk3s prints way better than my pro2.

and the prusa is always evolving, not pro2.

its a technology product, not something like a C wrench. if its not improving then its junk.

nothing has been improved on the pro2 since 2018. its a giant brick.

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ccclarke
Posts: 186
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Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby ccclarke » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:31 pm

Bought another Raise3D printer for work recently - this time a Pro2 since the majority of the printing we do doesn't need such a large build volume. The print quality has been fantastic in almost daily use -all we print is Raise3D Premium PLA.

Two weeks ago, the touch display went black after acknowledging a successful print. Cycling the power returned the display to the same screen with the same results. It takes anywhere from 3 to 12 power cycles to restore the printer to the Home screen. At that point it will operate normally - until the end of a print where the fault repeats.

Reported the problem to Raise3D to open a ticket and was sent a quote for $600 for a new touch display. The printer was received 84 days prior to submitting the ticket (and that info was supplied on the ticket.) Got in contact with one of the US-based Raise3D executives and explained my problem and he acknowledged the part should be replaced under the 90-day warranty.

After getting that straightened out, I commented on the abysmal quality of the written documentation posted on the company website (but complimented them on the US-produced videos) and recommended the US-based distributor take the lead in writing the documentation for the English language documentation.

I also told him of the disparity between US and Chinese support compared to Europe, of which a lot of frustration is expressed here - and rightfully so.

The main point of my discussion with him centered around the fact that Raise3D printers are advertised as industrial-quality and yet many corners have been cut (quality-wise) to increase the profit margin on what is arguably a very expensive "Prosumer" printer that is eclipsed by less-expensive competitors that include better hot ends, firmware customization, and automatic bed leveling compensation. Raise3D makes a good-looking, enclosed printer with a nice display and a company-produced slicer that generally works well with the printer.

Looks don't win races.

I'm in the process of writing a more detailed letter citing specific examples linked to threads on this forum. I also told him I was pleased to see crimp lugs used on the terminal board for the build plate heater and sensor, that may have been influenced by posts generated on these forums. Maybe R3D is listening?!

Reading posts from owners upgrading to new hot ends on a printer in this price range is totally unsat. For a minimal upgrade, Raise3D could build in industrial reliability, which would boost sales and make up for the small price invested in upgrades to enable their products to fulfil the advertised hype.

YouTube has plenty of positive reviews of brand-new R3D printers. I'd like to see the reviewer's opinions after one year of steady operation.

I am still waiting to purchase my own printer for a small business I want to start. The E2 is out, and the Pro2 could only be considered with upgrades for high-temp filament (PLA is fine, but not what I need.) Since I'm in no hurry, a Pro3 should be released at some point and will hopefully address the issues we see consistently reported here.
Male Modeler / Sub-Human

LarryDixon
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:53 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby LarryDixon » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:15 am

Please don't be too harsh with me about this.

I've tried to solve things myself, but I'm beaten. I'm a former firefighter, rescue worker, I repair vehicles and I can't say I have any Nobel Prizes, but I'm not quite an idiot, either. I'm in rural Oklahoma. I spent all I could on a Raise3D Pro2+, so I could supplement the weak trickle of PPE we had in the area.

This was my 5th-ever 3D printer, and by far the biggest, so I wasn't really a total novice, but... this machine has beaten me. It's been out of commission far more than it's been used. Every bit of PPE I've made, people have been thankful for, but this Pro2+ ... I've tried, I really have.

I've tangled with the hot end, cooling, heat creep and massive-blobs-o-plastic. I even fabricated a peltier-cooled chillbox to supercool air from an external high-CFM fishtank aerator, with twin silicone hoses along the drag cable, to blow directly on the tiny cooling fins on the hot end, to keep things as "stock" as I could and supplement the tiny little heat sinks.

Most recently, I replaced a hot end with Raise3D factory new parts, and heater + temp sensor, all exactly like the videos & user group suggestions.

No matter what I do, I click the power switch, it all lights up, and the new hot end climbs all the way to 300C+ before showing an error, for which the only option is to restart or shut off the machine. I've gone through all the recommended steps in the forums.

I'm letting people down, and it's heartbreaking. I can't afford to just keep replacing pieces at the rate other users have described. My investment in a Pro2+ was so I'd have a machine that would be reliable all the time, all the way. I'm ashamed I can't deliver.

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Steven@Raise3D
Posts: 575
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:24 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Steven@Raise3D » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:16 am

I would suggest creating a support ticket so that one of our technical support engineers can better assist you in resolving these issues with the machine.

LarryDixon wrote:Please don't be too harsh with me about this.

I've tried to solve things myself, but I'm beaten. I'm a former firefighter, rescue worker, I repair vehicles and I can't say I have any Nobel Prizes, but I'm not quite an idiot, either. I'm in rural Oklahoma. I spent all I could on a Raise3D Pro2+, so I could supplement the weak trickle of PPE we had in the area.

This was my 5th-ever 3D printer, and by far the biggest, so I wasn't really a total novice, but... this machine has beaten me. It's been out of commission far more than it's been used. Every bit of PPE I've made, people have been thankful for, but this Pro2+ ... I've tried, I really have.

I've tangled with the hot end, cooling, heat creep and massive-blobs-o-plastic. I even fabricated a peltier-cooled chillbox to supercool air from an external high-CFM fishtank aerator, with twin silicone hoses along the drag cable, to blow directly on the tiny cooling fins on the hot end, to keep things as "stock" as I could and supplement the tiny little heat sinks.

Most recently, I replaced a hot end with Raise3D factory new parts, and heater + temp sensor, all exactly like the videos & user group suggestions.

No matter what I do, I click the power switch, it all lights up, and the new hot end climbs all the way to 300C+ before showing an error, for which the only option is to restart or shut off the machine. I've gone through all the recommended steps in the forums.

I'm letting people down, and it's heartbreaking. I can't afford to just keep replacing pieces at the rate other users have described. My investment in a Pro2+ was so I'd have a machine that would be reliable all the time, all the way. I'm ashamed I can't deliver.

LarryDixon
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:53 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby LarryDixon » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:44 am

Thank you, Steven.
I fear I've gotten used to most things just falling apart, after 2020. Bad year for us here.

DirkH
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:25 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby DirkH » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:35 am

I'm owner of a Pro2 for 2 months now. I began with 3D-Printing 2 years ago and had several printers. My problems were:
1) Uneven printbed. At the corners, the height is about 0.15 mm lower than in the middle. The result is, that prints that are larger than 7 cm warp or the print has other problems because the nozzle is too close to the bed. I purchased a second printbed and another Buildtac surface in PEI which didn't make it better. I don't see many complaints about this in the forum and hope that this is something I can optimize in the future. Any help is appreciated! The supporting team saw the pictures and was happy because all quadrats attach, which is not enough in my opinion. An upgrade-set to introduce auto levelling would be the solution, but this is not planned if I understand well.
2) Clogging of the filament inside the extruder because of heat inside the extruder when printing PETG for about 36 h. I learned that this is a well-known issue and only liquid cooling is able to solve this issue. I ordered parts to realize this, but my fear is, that it will take a lot of time until it works. Thanks to Markus and his "liquid cooling for everyone"-initiative.

I'm writing this because I hope to get help and adjust this printer. I love it because it is so generously and sturdy built.

Labirynt
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Labirynt » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:28 pm

DirkH wrote:I'm owner of a Pro2 for 2 months now. I began with 3D-Printing 2 years ago and had several printers. My problems were:
(...)
2) Clogging of the filament inside the extruder because of heat inside the extruder when printing PETG for about 36 h. I learned that this is a well-known issue and only liquid cooling is able to solve this issue. I ordered parts to realize this, but my fear is, that it will take a lot of time until it works. Thanks to Markus and his "liquid cooling for everyone"-initiative.


that is enough mod, to fix it: https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16207

Paul123
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Paul123 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:26 pm

hi Dirk,
Don't be shy - water cooling is a two days work and its worth it - no more clogging after many hundreds of high temp prints with closed lid:-)

the second main problem with the uneven plate is more a problem of the lagging gantry because of the weight of the dual extruder. exchanging the bed is only a small step in the right direction because the lag will stay. i changed to a thicker al-plate, too, but still had more than 0.20 mm difference from middle to corners. markus64 and me are designing a new extruder carrier with thicker rods that dont't bend, but in the meantime i found a very practicable solution:
i fixed a magentic neodym foil on top of my alloy plate, then small sheets of paper on the corners and some other areas pf the build plate to compensate the measurement offsets. on top comes a steel plate which is held in place firmly by the neodym foil. it works really great. if you like i can send a few pictures so that you can imagine how everything could be done...

still there are a lot (!!) of smaller issues, but since i eliminated these two main issues i am at least able to use the printer somehow for printing and not only for just having a printer;-)


Labirynt wrote:
DirkH wrote:I'm owner of a Pro2 for 2 months now. I began with 3D-Printing 2 years ago and had several printers. My problems were:
(...)
2) Clogging of the filament inside the extruder because of heat inside the extruder when printing PETG for about 36 h. I learned that this is a well-known issue and only liquid cooling is able to solve this issue. I ordered parts to realize this, but my fear is, that it will take a lot of time until it works. Thanks to Markus and his "liquid cooling for everyone"-initiative.


that is enough mod, to fix it: https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16207

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ccclarke
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:09 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby ccclarke » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:05 pm

One potential solution to the sagging gantry problem, (not helped by loading it up with water-cooling mods) is to water-cool just one hot end, since many owners rarely print use both, which reduces gantry loading.
Male Modeler / Sub-Human

Paul123
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Questioning Pro2 Product Quality - Ongoing Issues

Postby Paul123 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:15 am

The is no significant difference between two or one hotend water cooled. I had this solution for month exactly with the same offsets measured on the build plate. and its clear as the weight of the additional cooling is nothing compared to the total weight of the two steppers, the extruder gears, bearings, rods, chain, cables, the extruder carriage and so on. one cooling element is around 10g, lets add another 10 grams for the additional tubes, and thats it!
ccclarke wrote:One potential solution to the sagging gantry problem, (not helped by loading it up with water-cooling mods) is to water-cool just one hot end, since many owners rarely print use both, which reduces gantry loading.


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