N2 Bed Leveling Document

NewbPilot
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N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby NewbPilot » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:04 pm

It's been a long time since I've posted here ...

So My N2 bed has NEVER been level. I always just used the 12x12 bed to print smaller items so it wasnt terrible. However, I finally need the whole 12x12 and i need to level it. Ive actually attempted it in the past, i had a 1+ hour call with Tech support,so I remember the main idea. It wasnt level in the end because the glass was warped, and now that I replaced that due to a crack, it's not level again.

This url on the N2 repair page gives me a 404 error for the leveling document
https://support.raise3d.com/list.html?cid=3&pid=493

Do we have a link to it? I remember basically heating the bed to 80, starting in the middle, then loosening the bed screw and then either lowering or raising a grub screw til the feeler gauge was right, then tightening then moving out - but i want to be sure there's not something new/better/different

Jetguy
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Re: N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby Jetguy » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:35 pm

Suggest you use a cheap dial indicator from harbor freight.
You can level a bed in minutes using the dial gauge, you'll be guessing, at best, for hours with a feeler setup.
Sorry, the videos are not the best (was in a moment just trying to post something), but the information is what you are after.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9-vg2UllhA
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du8OdPosrMo

Jetguy
Posts: 3015
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby Jetguy » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:47 pm

NewbPilot wrote:I remember basically heating the bed to 80- Yes, this is a good starting temp, be sure to wait a few minutes for the bed to reach and stabilize at this temp

starting in the middle, No, this is not the best starting point, start in the 4 corners. This is because the center by design, will ALWAYS be closer to the nozzle, making it IMPOSSIBLE to adjust. Gravity is pulling DOWN the nozzle as it hangs in the center of the rod system. That makes a parabolic path of motion meaning the nozzle will always and forever be closer to the bed in the middle. YOU ARE NOT SETTING Z gap, you are leveling the plane of the bed to the traveling virtual plane (which is really a parabolic path and not a plane) to make them paralle (AKA equidistant). If you are setting Z gap (the adjustment of the Z axis endstop screw), then because you know the bed is level and you also know the center is going to be the closest, yes, in Z gap adjustment, starting in the center assures MINIMUM gap is set, and the gap you cannot do much about- the edge or 4 corners becomes what it is based on the parabolic path of the nozzle and the minimum gap in the center.

then loosening the bed screw and then either lowering or raising a grub screw til the feeler gauge was right, then tightening then moving to the next point


Again, just a concept, since the glass sits on the bed and is not glue or otherwise attached, it's impossible to ever pull the center down. You can distort and adjust the aluminum heater plate so it no longer touches the glass, but again, that doesn't pull the bed surface down in the center.
Keep all of these concepts in mind when measuring and adjusting. I know there are people who adjust the heck out of the center, measure it, and then wonder why it's not changing.

NewbPilot
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Re: N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby NewbPilot » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:59 pm

Jetguy wrote:
NewbPilot wrote:I remember basically heating the bed to 80- Yes, this is a good starting temp, be sure to wait a few minutes for the bed to reach and stabilize at this temp

starting in the middle, No, this is not the best starting point, start in the 4 corners. This is because the center by design, will ALWAYS be closer to the nozzle, making it IMPOSSIBLE to adjust. Gravity is pulling DOWN the nozzle as it hangs in the center of the rod system. That makes a parabolic path of motion meaning the nozzle will always and forever be closer to the bed in the middle. YOU ARE NOT SETTING Z gap, you are leveling the plane of the bed to the traveling virtual plane (which is really a parabolic path and not a plane) to make them paralle (AKA equidistant). If you are setting Z gap (the adjustment of the Z axis endstop screw), then because you know the bed is level and you also know the center is going to be the closest, yes, in Z gap adjustment, starting in the center assures MINIMUM gap is set, and the gap you cannot do much about- the edge or 4 corners becomes what it is based on the parabolic path of the nozzle and the minimum gap in the center.

then loosening the bed screw and then either lowering or raising a grub screw til the feeler gauge was right, then tightening then moving to the next point


Again, just a concept, since the glass sits on the bed and is not glue or otherwise attached, it's impossible to ever pull the center down. You can distort and adjust the aluminum heater plate so it no longer touches the glass, but again, that doesn't pull the bed surface down in the center.
Keep all of these concepts in mind when measuring and adjusting. I know there are people who adjust the heck out of the center, measure it, and then wonder why it's not changing.


Always, ALWAYS appreciate your responses. Thank you!

I just spent 2 hours with the feeler gauge, and looked at my bed, still not level at all 13 points, and said "I need to go to Harbor Freight".

That said, I am seriously concerned that after 3+ years of printing basically in the center, my bed itself isnt level. I started at the center, got that and the 2 mid left and mid right points ok, moved to the front and got those points (5) ok, moved back t o center and it was flush with the bed. adjusted the z-gap, same process, same result. I finally got it "ok ish" and just hit print, and can already tell the print will lift.

NewbPilot
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Re: N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby NewbPilot » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:27 pm

I noticed you were using clips in that video. It's several years old, so perhaps it was before you went to thermal pads with no clips. Or, am I mistaken and do you still clip the glass to the bed?

Jetguy wrote:Suggest you use a cheap dial indicator from harbor freight.
You can level a bed in minutes using the dial gauge, you'll be guessing, at best, for hours with a feeler setup.
Sorry, the videos are not the best (was in a moment just trying to post something), but the information is what you are after.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9-vg2UllhA
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du8OdPosrMo

Jetguy
Posts: 3015
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby Jetguy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:05 pm

For a plain glass replacement bed I used with hairspray that never had Buildtak on it ever, yes, I used pads, and part of that reason was the glass was too small and couldn't use the clips. There are merits to using pads VS clips, but there are pros and cons of each.

Example failure with pads is, if before you used the silicone rubber pads or just from usage- the aluminum heater plate was not clean, or the pads had picked up dust, then the entire bed could slide if the nozzle hit part of the print causing a shift. Again, under ideal conditions and when "done right" - a subjective term, then the risk was minimal and/or no worse than clips because clips can allow a slide too in extreme conditions. So again, yes, on one printer where I either just used some large precut glass I had from other printer builds that was technically too small for the N2 series, I cheated and used pads. On the other printer, I never damaged the stock glass bed, just left it as is with clips.

NewbPilot
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Re: N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby NewbPilot » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:13 pm

Thanks again!
So, I've painfully leveled the bed twice using the dial indicator method. There was always one area that i couldnt get, typically the back right side. I'm fairly sure my bed is warped beyond hope. It's been 3 years and likely out of alignment on this side for 3 years.

IMG9723.jpeg


IMG9724.jpeg


IMG9725.jpeg


IMG9722.jpeg

NewbPilot
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:16 am
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
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Re: N2 Bed Leveling Document

Postby NewbPilot » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Is it possible to replace the entire bed? I've got it where it's printing on about 80% of the bed, but my N2 is basically an N1 right now.


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