Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

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kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby kencfii » Thu May 17, 2018 8:06 am

here are the pics
what is easiest way to get logs
Attachments
IMG_0360.jpg
IMG_0359.jpg
IMG_0357.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu May 17, 2018 11:36 am

Go to Settings -> More Settings -> Serial Port Log.
Run a print and cut the filament and press Export if it doesn't trigger any error.

kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby kencfii » Thu May 17, 2018 2:22 pm

log files attached.
last print was one with filament running out and nothing happened. I then stopped the printing.
I hope this is the correct log.
The new touch firmware seems slow.
I have to wait a few seconds after selecting one menu till I can select something again...
Attachments
all-raisetouch-783-20180517101959.tar.gz
(712.95 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

Warren G
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Warren G » Thu May 17, 2018 5:59 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Warren G wrote:I'm having problems as well. Installed the sensor and the 1.1.6frs firmware update. Ran a test print and when the filament ran out, nothing happened, the printer just kept going.


Have you update the touchscreen firmware together? To the latest version in download center?
Have you checked with the feeding direction of left and right side filament?


I wasn't aware that the touchscreen needed an update. I'll look into it. Thanks.

Warren G
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Warren G » Thu May 17, 2018 7:20 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Warren G wrote:I'm having problems as well. Installed the sensor and the 1.1.6frs firmware update. Ran a test print and when the filament ran out, nothing happened, the printer just kept going.


Have you update the touchscreen firmware together? To the latest version in download center?
Have you checked with the feeding direction of left and right side filament?


I got it to work after switching sides on the sensor. Someone else has stated that pg 6 of your instruction guide is WRONG. The L and R on the sensor are mislabeled.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri May 18, 2018 3:35 am

Warren G wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Warren G wrote:I'm having problems as well. Installed the sensor and the 1.1.6frs firmware update. Ran a test print and when the filament ran out, nothing happened, the printer just kept going.


Have you update the touchscreen firmware together? To the latest version in download center?
Have you checked with the feeding direction of left and right side filament?


I got it to work after switching sides on the sensor. Someone else has stated that pg 6 of your instruction guide is WRONG. The L and R on the sensor are mislabeled.


Have you double confirm the wring that the White end at Y+, Green end at Z+ slots?
We tried on our machine, the filament feeding direction in instruction should be correct. The right feeding path on filament sensor detects the filament fed into left nozzle.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri May 18, 2018 8:26 am

kencfii wrote:log files attached.
last print was one with filament running out and nothing happened. I then stopped the printing.
I hope this is the correct log.
The new touch firmware seems slow.
I have to wait a few seconds after selecting one menu till I can select something again...


May I have the version numbers of your two firmwares? Have you ever tried cut off the both side filament during printing to check whether it triggers the error or not?

BTW, have you tried with the STL of new printer cover I uploaded here yesterday?

kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby kencfii » Fri May 18, 2018 4:27 pm

Ok
I think we have a documentation issue

The N1 instructions show the greens and white wire reversed from the N2 install instructions.
I uploaded my install pics above and they are in the correct place according to the N2 install documentation
But it does not work
I will bet if I swap them, it may work
If you look at the N1 install instructions you will see they have the colors reversed.

I will have to try this but can not get to printer for a couple days.
Will have to let you know

I printed the new adapter, hopefully that will help with drag on filament.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun May 20, 2018 10:21 am

kencfii wrote:Ok
I think we have a documentation issue

The N1 instructions show the greens and white wire reversed from the N2 install instructions.
I uploaded my install pics above and they are in the correct place according to the N2 install documentation
But it does not work
I will bet if I swap them, it may work
If you look at the N1 install instructions you will see they have the colors reversed.

I will have to try this but can not get to printer for a couple days.
Will have to let you know

I printed the new adapter, hopefully that will help with drag on filament.


Actually the White and Green wires only stand for left and right nozzle's feeding signal. Which means, even with wrong wiring between two wires, the only problem will be left side out of filament triggers right nozzle which may currently not using so it doesn't trigger any error.
As the installation directions of N2/N2 Plus and N1 are not the same. We define the sensor on N2, right side on sensor triggering the signal of left nozzle. And on N1 is left side triggering left nozzle.

kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby kencfii » Sun May 20, 2018 8:06 pm

OK,
I think we have confusion here still...
BUT

I WORKS!

SO I got it to work by swapping the white/green wires - They are now attached with the opposite of the N@ directions that I have.

The Green is on the left and the white is on rhe right - opposite of the picture I posted above.
This is when looking at the printer from the side that has the spools...

Apparently you want us (I think) to have the left spool go through the right hole of the sensor and the right spool through the left hole of the sensor...
This is not the way I have been running the machine for the last 500 prints or the way the set up video (or logic) shows to feed filament into the N2.

Why would we want to cross the filaments and have the Left spool feed over the right?

Maybe that is better somehow but that is not how I thought it was supposed to be run... Does not seem to make sense.

Anyway - I swapped the wires and all seems to work well....

Now - on to the filament drag issue... Lots of drag on the filament.

I have printed the new improved mounting block you sent me and will try that out soon.
I have to get some time critical prints done first...

I hope it helps....

Thx

PS anyone else seeing my issues?
An I on an island :-)
I could be and am maybe missing something real easy....

PLEASE look at the first 2 images of the Step 6: Loading instructions for the sensor install N2.
First one shows the orange filament as L as does the second picture but it is clearly in the R hole of the sensor.....

That seems to be what they want according to how the wiring works.... BUT that is not the way I have always been feeding.... I have been doing L spool to L bowden tube.
Why does this sensor want it a different way??? and why should the filaments crossover if using dual extrusion?

Just confused... which is easy to do.. :-)

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon May 21, 2018 1:11 pm

kencfii wrote:OK,
I think we have confusion here still...
BUT

I WORKS!

SO I got it to work by swapping the white/green wires - They are now attached with the opposite of the N@ directions that I have.

The Green is on the left and the white is on rhe right - opposite of the picture I posted above.
This is when looking at the printer from the side that has the spools...

Apparently you want us (I think) to have the left spool go through the right hole of the sensor and the right spool through the left hole of the sensor...
This is not the way I have been running the machine for the last 500 prints or the way the set up video (or logic) shows to feed filament into the N2.

Why would we want to cross the filaments and have the Left spool feed over the right?

Maybe that is better somehow but that is not how I thought it was supposed to be run... Does not seem to make sense.

Anyway - I swapped the wires and all seems to work well....

Now - on to the filament drag issue... Lots of drag on the filament.

I have printed the new improved mounting block you sent me and will try that out soon.
I have to get some time critical prints done first...

I hope it helps....

Thx

PS anyone else seeing my issues?
An I on an island :-)
I could be and am maybe missing something real easy....

PLEASE look at the first 2 images of the Step 6: Loading instructions for the sensor install N2.
First one shows the orange filament as L as does the second picture but it is clearly in the R hole of the sensor.....

That seems to be what they want according to how the wiring works.... BUT that is not the way I have always been feeding.... I have been doing L spool to L bowden tube.
Why does this sensor want it a different way??? and why should the filaments crossover if using dual extrusion?

Just confused... which is easy to do.. :-)


The orange filament in picture passing through the right side of sensor which should be fed into left nozzle, so we mark L on it. The L here stands for Left Nozzle but not left side of sensor. Because the right side tunnel on sensor triggers the left nozzle's feeding signal.
2.png
2.png (135.3 KiB) Viewed 409 times

kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby kencfii » Mon May 21, 2018 2:04 pm

Ok
I get it.
That is different than I have been running my N2
And different than the setup videos.
So right side spool feeds into right side of sensor and then feed it to left print head.

Just strange to switch like this when inhave always run with spools feeding respective sides like the set up video shows and logic dictates.

Anyone else do this?

Anyone?

Thx

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue May 22, 2018 7:29 am

kencfii wrote:Ok
I get it.
That is different than I have been running my N2
And different than the setup videos.
So right side spool feeds into right side of sensor and then feed it to left print head.

Just strange to switch like this when inhave always run with spools feeding respective sides like the set up video shows and logic dictates.

Anyone else do this?

Anyone?

Thx


We haven't defined feeding direction before in all documents and instructions. But with the sensor we have to define which nozzle for which sensor tunnel. So we marked inside the installation guide for sensor this time.

kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby kencfii » Tue May 22, 2018 11:39 am

OK
Thanks!

hope to try the new mount soon

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue May 22, 2018 11:46 am

kencfii wrote:OK
Thanks!

hope to try the new mount soon


BTW, have you tried with this mount?
Filament Run-out Sensor Back Cover Upgraded Ver.STL
(408.38 KiB) Downloaded 18 times

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3DWP
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby 3DWP » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:06 pm

I read some other threads about this, is there an official answer here? I received a filament sensor that doesn't work (probably the filament is in the wrong entrance).

Why is there not more info about this in the manual? Also, there is alot of drag on the filament and it is being stripped by the sensor housing..

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:03 pm

Have you ever tried with loading filament at left side and inserting filament into right side tunnel of Run-out Sensor but not reaching to extruder entrance. Once still printing with left side, grab filament from the right nozzle out to see whether it triggers error or not?
If your sensor doesn't work properly, please shoot a support ticket to help.raise3d.com to contact our technicians.

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3DWP
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby 3DWP » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:15 pm

This is the current setup: I connected the left spool (viewed from the door side) to the right nozzle. Also, the filament of course is fed through the left entrance of the sensor. I switched the connectors on the main board and now the sensor did work. It did take like a minute before the printer stopped (it was printing the raft).

Still I think the filament has a lot of friction and the sensor housing strips the filament.

Although this can be fixed and the sensor works I don't like all the time this has cost me and will cost..

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JohnSays
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby JohnSays » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:37 pm

I want to put paid to having to print a new filament cover. It doesn't fix the source of the problem. The source of the problem is simply that the holes that the filament enters are not chamfered. That's it. The edges are so sharp there that the filament hangs and scrapes. While printing a new cover aligns the filament better, it doesn't chamfer the holes. With chamfered holes you do not need a new filament cover.

Details here: http://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=8459&view=unread#p30911
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

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JohnSays
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Install Problem

Postby JohnSays » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:41 pm

I posted about this sensor problem on another thread and because it was completely ignored by Raise3D, I will repost my rant here because it does not deserve to be ignored by Raise3D:

Next subject (RANT WARNING): Sensor does not work. Software downloaded and installed:frs version of 1.1.6 and latest LCD software. Check. I double and triple checked my wiring against the docs. Then I went online to see if I could get a better look at the pictures by expanding them. I then look at the N1 pictures by mistake (I have two N2's) and see that the green and white wires are in exactly the opposite connectors. So I try that on the N2 and it works... Honestly, would it be too much effort to email us about this mistake or to revise the docs online?! Every single person who downloads and uses these docs is going to have the same problem I had. This is again so sloppy. Sloppy assembly of the machines and sloppy customer support that causes hours to days of work for us. I do not see how this behavior is raising the standard. One more thing, the 14 pin connector appears to be wired upside down. The notch should be installed to the left per the picture hint on the board. However, IF I am seeing the picture correctly the wires go to the top of the connector; which places the notch to the right. Not sure because nobody made sure the photo was (a) big enough or (b) bright enough. More sloppiness.

Yes I am PO'd because this sort of slop (substitute preferred invective) totally throws my day off -- AGAIN. So instead of getting a print going and handling my list of things to do today, I am still trying to get R3D (redacted) to work. I was up until 1:30am making the the sensor fit for use by chamfering the hole and testing it. I paid $89 for this sensor kit and now I find out I could have gotten better from Amazon and JetGuy's instructions. For $89 I think we should get a working kit that includes workable -- read correct -- instructions. In my software company I always always always tested the documentation against the software. I had a person in my Help Dept just for the purpose of testing the documentation.

And just as a little teeny weeny aside and speaking of testing: I cannot believe that anodized aluminum sensor block was fully tested. Surely any experienced printer operator would have caught that the filament was being scraped and jamming going into the sensor block. Now the "solution" is to 3D print another workaround. No. Fix the problem. Email or message the buyers that they have a faulty product and here's what to do. Bing bang. Don't let us flounder and waste our time each one of us finding out that the product is faulty or the docs are faulty, That is not Raising the Standard. If R3D does not think that improving communication should be part of their efforts, then they will not get past middling in this market.

R3D you need to test your documentation against the hardware. PLEASE!

End of rant -- for now.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+


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