extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

SniperSK
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm

extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby SniperSK » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:04 am

Hello, I am currently trying to print this marble track: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1385312
Right now I am on the third attempt, because the first two attempts failed at about 50%. What happens is that suddenly the nozzle is touching the last layer while trying to move over/past it and depending on how 'hard' it scratches on the object it leads to an x/y offset so the that following layers get printed shifted, leading to a distorted object.

You can see the 'stairs' in the object where the outer wall should just be straight:
MarbleTrack.jpg


Nothing in the comments of this marble track indicates any problem with the model/object itself, so this somehow seems to be an issue with the printer.
Any idea on what leads to this? I was using the black Raise3D Premium PLA for the first two tries and currently I am trying the red one. What could lead to this raise of a layer so that the nozzle suddenly touches it?

Thanks

walleywalker
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:02 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby walleywalker » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:07 pm

I ran into this with thin walled ABS prints. Turn on your Z-Hop to like 0.25mm and it should resolve itself.

SniperSK
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby SniperSK » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:39 pm

Thanks for the hint with the Z-Hop, I will try it next time!
In the meantime the version with the red PLA worked like a charm but I don't really understand why there is such a difference between the colors of the same brand/type PLA.

SniperSK
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby SniperSK » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:25 am

Ok I am really having some serious issue with the black Raise3D Premium PLA. After starting another print job with this PLA I woke up today only to find this mess in my printer:
BlackPLAIssue.jpg

The PLA was all over the place and what really pissed my off was this:
DamagedNozzleCover.jpg

It even somehow managed to rip off parts of the nozzle cover...

I am quite disappointed with this PLA. I thought when using the Raise3D Premium PLA with my new Pro2 printer that I could avoid some or even most of the issues when it comes to having adjust every possible setting to get even a decent result like it is sometimes with special or cheap filament. But none of the other filaments did the damage this one caused to my printer...

Shelton
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby Shelton » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:37 am

Bed leveling. My bed is not a good level from the factory. This is known the issue. Try to check it first.

SniperSK
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby SniperSK » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:15 pm

I printed with the white and red PLA for weeks now without issues, especially the red one does work like a charm. But with the black PLA you can watch it gently bend upwards quite quick when cooling especially on small/narrow parts (watched it now on some quick tests).

Shelton
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby Shelton » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:56 pm

Try to dry filament also... I have some issues with stringing and adhesion... few hours in a dryer and is ok!

walleywalker
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:02 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby walleywalker » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:31 pm

Shelton wrote:Try to dry filament also... I have some issues with stringing and adhesion... few hours in a dryer and is ok!


That's what I was going to ask. It could easily be a drying issue.

SniperSK
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby SniperSK » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:39 am

But this was with a fresh Premium PLA out of the vacuum wrapping. Does that really need that much 'attention' right out of the box?

Btw this is what waited for me this morning:
PrintingMadness.jpg

And this was after a print where I was not able to separate raft and object and had throw everything away.

I must say that after some weeks with my new Pro2 Plus I am really disappointed (and frustrated).
Ok I admit that I am not experienced with 3D printing but this was also a reason to buy a 'semi professional' device because I thought then at least it would get the basics right and I don't have to fight against issues of a cheap device. I just wanted to print and not to have spend more time on pampering my printer then enjoying my prints.
I tried several special filaments, it was a mess. I could get PET to print with temperatures way out of the given boundaries, I tested 2 different wood filaments which lead to disasemble the whole HotEnd to get everything out again (tried different temperatures, different nozzle diameters etc.), same goes with bronze filament. Every filament that is only a little bit more 'fragile' then PLA has serious problems with feeding it to the HotEnd, as it either has not enough grip or it squeezes to hard.
And now even the default PLA from the same vendor as the printer only leads to shitty results and me being frustrated out of my mind. Wanted to create something for my girlfriend for our anniversary and started several days ahead but now it looks as if it is not going to be finished in time because of all this shit.
I would not buy this printer again, I can have the same 'adventure' with entry models that are way cheaper. I spent quite a portion of my time cleaning, disasembling/reassembling my printer and about a third of the prints went directly to the trash. Especially those that took a long time to print of course.
It is good that I don't use facebook, I think Raise3D would not be pleased by my feedback with their current campaign.
Sorry this had to go out... and now I go an clean my printer.... again....

P.S.: does anyone know how to clean the white plastic nozzle cover? After beeing sprinkled and covered with PLA (ah yes an parts of it being ripped off during a print) the right one looks just like a mess but I am not sure on how to get the PLA remainings off of that cover without damaging it more.

mschroeder
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:43 am

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby mschroeder » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:26 pm

That looks like the result of the nozzle and throat tube not being tightened correctly.
Also they sell replacement silicone boots in a 3 pack in the store for $10. They're not even worth trying to clean in my opinion.

Having printed a variety of materials such as PLA, PETG, Nylon, ABS and TPU and few specialties (glow, metal filled, wood filled) from a mixture of manufacturers through my Pro2, I will say there is not a steadfast rule as far as temps and speeds goes. Each material from each manufacturer needs some experimentation to dial in initially.

I would start with a temp tower and get a good sense of where the material likes to be run. e.g. google says PLA likes between 185 and 205. I tend to run Amazon PLA around 210 personally. So I might run a temperature tower from 215, 210, 205, 200, 195, 190 and 185. (Be aware of running to cold as you can create clogs). Once I find a temp range (say 205 - 210) that the print looks the best, i'll run one more tower doing individual degree steps, 210,209,208,207,206,205. (Not always but I have found certain filaments that ran exceptionally at a very specific temperature).

Once I have my temp dialed in, I like to run a benchmark like this one: (https://github.com/kickstarter/kickstar ... M-protocol) and look at the results, based on how the benchmark runs I might adjust feeds/speeds, cooling, retraction, bed temp etc. (With experience comes the ability to quickly diagnose what you're seeing in your prints).

if you're concerned about bed leveling, you can quickly and roughly check the level by moving the bed to its home position, and then moving the extruder around the build plate and checking the clearance with the feeler gauge that came with the machine. The more precisely check it you'll need a dial indicator.

Then I keep a log with manufacturer, filament type, and temps. As well as build a base profile in IdeaMaker with all of my final settings. Once you get a few materials dialed in, you'll find it much easier to use a new filament from a new manufacturer without having to do as much experimentation.

Shelton
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby Shelton » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:21 pm

For me, the first main factor is the right flow. After that. You can adjust the rest of the parameters.

SniperSK
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby SniperSK » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:16 pm

No I assembled everything tight with heated hotend and did some test prints without issues before starting the large one again (one advantage of all this madness is that i get to know my printer quite well and by now I can assemble the hotend and calibrate the bed z axis while sleeping). I printed one object (took about 2 hours) without issues and then started multiple copies of the same object over night.
I think what happened is that the nozzle scratched again against the objects (every 9 have been pushed off the bed) and somehow glued parts of an object to the nozzle or something like this starting this madness.
After cleaning I did again further printing until now without issues without reassembling the hotend so this is definitely not the issue.

Thanks for the feedback about the special filaments, this at least gives some hope.
I experienced really weird issues. For example with the wood filaments I kept the loading process running for a couple of minutes to check if it keeps flowing ok (after I had issues with it stopping during print) and then started right away a print job with the result that within the first 10 seconds the filament stopped flowing out of the nozzle.... I even tried a 0.8 mm nozzle just because I thought that it was perhaps just to tight. And then when I have to disassemble everything again to unload and clean everything I cannot find a reason why it got stuck (besides sometimes the part that is in the feeder being squeezed a bit, that lead to my assumption that it has not enough grip to keep the pressure high enough on these fragile filaments).

I only tested with temperature, layer heights and nozzle sizes (so the basic stuff). What I never touched so far where settings for retraction/cooling etc.
And testing is so frustrating when you have to take apart everything every 5 minutes because the filament got stuck again....

Don't get me wrong: I really enjoy 3D printing in general... a lot in fact. But all this time I spend testing, cleaning, adjusting etc. etc. .... uff. And then never knowing what really caused the issue or ending with different results even tough the exact same settings have been used. This part really sucks. And it feels like every time I leave the one working default setting things go wrong.

SniperSK
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby SniperSK » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:33 pm

And it happened again, this time with the blue Version of the Premium PLA (so it might not be the PLA itself).
After several successful smaller prints I started again with a bigger project and after about 78 hours of seamless printing the nozzle scratched on the object and I wasted a lot of time and material and can throw everything away. This is just sooooooo frustrating...

Zoidsfan77
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:07 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby Zoidsfan77 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:28 pm

Did you ever get this figured out?
Are you still getting nozzle collisions even with Z-hop on? If so try bumping up the value to maybe 0.5mm, just to see.

I am curious as to the cause of your issues.

Shelton
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Re: extruder/nozzle scratching printed object leading to x/y offset

Postby Shelton » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:10 pm

Few factors probably together...


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