4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
Elastic Rabbit
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4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Elastic Rabbit » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:46 am

I'm going to start by saying that my company runs 4 Raise3d N2's 24/7/365 and we love them. We produce 30,000+ pieces a year all on our Raise3D N2's and they have allowed us to successfully do small batch manufacturing in a highly adaptive and flexible manner.

Now here's some honest feedback on why we chose to buy more N2's instead of the N2 Pro's during our most recent expansion:

The Pro 2 looks awesome and it has some nice new features (camera, better hardware, 32bit controller, filament run out detector, etc), but here are 4 really important things that were missing:

1) ideaMaker still doesn't allow sequential model prints (something that Cura does for free); this makes bulk printing of multiple parts more challenging than it needs to be. This is a must have if ideaMaker is going to support small batch manufacturing operations - and Edward Feng and the whole company need to address this issue because ideaMaker has great potential otherwise.

2) Build plate; we wanted a paperclip-free yet hot swap-able build plate design that has build-tak on one side and glass on the other. A $4000 printer should be able to print on hot glass out of the box.

3) Proven material compatibility; the raise3D N2 needed some serious aftermarket parts to make it work 100% reliably with some of the more exotic filaments out there. Specifically, we want some hard evidence that the Pro 2 does a better job (30mm/s) with flexible filaments such as softer TPU's and nylons.

4) All N2 Pro's should ship with a selection of .4mm, .6mm, and .8mm nozzles. We don't want to waste time ordering these small pieces separately and they are so cheap they should be included in the price of a $4000 printer.

We're supper excited about the future of 3D printing and small batch manufacturing and also looking forwards to continue expanding with Raise3D. Keep up the great work and feel free to contact us for additional feedback on the N2 Pro's, N2's and future development efforts.

PS: Our bonus feature request would be hot-swapable hot end assemblies so that the whole assembly could be removed and replaced in under 2 minutes since we run many different types of print jobs with different materials and layering requirements.

mkowalski
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby mkowalski » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:26 am

What do you think between a Pro2 (smaller one) and a N2 Plus?

Looking at the pricing, they are in a similar price range, the N2 Plus is actually bigger and cheaper. I've watched the Pro2 "intro" video, but I'm not seeing that much of a difference. I guess it depends on the size of what you're printing, and we might not print more than ~12 inches, but having that possibility seems nice. Is the print quality that much better? The stats seem pretty similar, both .01mm. It looks like they discontinued the N2 Plus dual extruder option so people spend more on the Pro, but other than that, as a manufacturer, do you think it's practical to spend more if the print quality is basically the same?

I read some reviews, people say for example the Pro's camera is not that good quality, and it seems to have overheating issues based on the forum threads, when printing slower or with a smaller nozzle. So both machines seem to need "mods" to get them performing right.

What's your take? Also, I'm assuming based on your issue #1, Cura can run on the N2 but not the Pro2?

mkowalski
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby mkowalski » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:29 am

Also, is seems a few of the upgrades from the Pro2 will be available on the N2, so it's possible to at least get some features later on the N2 if needed. That's what I'm thinking right now. Also, there seems to be a much bigger N2 following, and only a few users with a Pro2.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:10 am

1) We have already added this feature into developing list. Hope we can get it before the end of this year.
2) current design is better
3) We do have several successful printing with flex filament and nylons. But most are printed for customers not allowed to show to public. Will ask the marketing team to prepare more to show public.
4) As all the printers are installed and packaged inside the factory first then shipped to warehouses all over the world. It is not easy for us the manage inventory based on different size of nozzles. Asking the warehouse to help replace nozzles will be hard as well.
If you need different sizes of harden nozzles, you can order the harden nozzle bundle from us. For more information, please contact sales@raise3d.com.

Elastic Rabbit
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Elastic Rabbit » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:08 am

Thanks for the info Vicky, super excited about the sequential model printing for ideaMaker.

When you say the current design is better for the build plate, what do you mean exactly? From the marketing materials we've seen it looks much more robust of a design (which is a definite plus), but our question is does it allow one to print on glass out of the box? We couldn't tell from current marketing materials.

Kraken3d
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Kraken3d » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:02 am

Still waiting on the camera to work properly and the heat creep / nozzle jam to be addressed. 1 major issue that damages this machine and 1 minor one. The camera seems like it would be an easy fix. Can download pictures or videos that I can find to work with the pro2.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:52 pm

Elastic Rabbit wrote:Thanks for the info Vicky, super excited about the sequential model printing for ideaMaker.

When you say the current design is better for the build plate, what do you mean exactly? From the marketing materials we've seen it looks much more robust of a design (which is a definite plus), but our question is does it allow one to print on glass out of the box? We couldn't tell from current marketing materials.


The metal one is more robust as you mentioned. Which means it will be hard to be damaged no matter how much force you apply onto it when removing filament or drop it onto floor by sudden.
And its levelness is easier to control compared with glass.
What's more, the heat transfer of metal is much better than glass.
And if you want to use glue, you still can apply on build surface. And wash after.

Elastic Rabbit
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Elastic Rabbit » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:23 pm

@Vicky, that's all really good info about the build plate, wish we had known that in advance. When printing on this metal, does it give the same smooth (glassy) finish that one can achieve from printing on glass?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:27 am

That may not be possible to achieve with the new metal plate with or without build surface.

Jetguy
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:34 am

Do not buy until this is properly resolved.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9746#p34304
Just to recap, as I know it and would recommend to clients, the only 3 fixes I would accept here are:
#1 a plug in safety board, just as created for the N series and supplied on all new printers. This is the easiest fix to existing printers
#2 A mainboard modification to do the same thing (example is exchange mainboards for customer with a modified mainboard)
#3 A properly fixed new version of the mainboard (not a mod, but a new board with properly functioning pullups to detect cable failure.

mkowalski
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby mkowalski » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:00 pm

I've been waiting weeks to see how Raise3D would fix any of the issues that are all over the Pro2 forums, from cable to hotend issues. It seems that they really don't care, and I'm too afraid to invest in a product that doesn't have any good support. The majority of posts seem to blame the user or to not acknowledge any problems. Look, hardware isn't always perfect, especially for a new generation of product. However, I'm sure you could have fixed these problems and it would have been worth it to do so even at a financial loss. Unfortunately I do not have confidence in Raise3D and that does affect my purchase choice. I would have much rather purchased an N2 model, but seeing as those are being discontinued, that isn't an option for me either. One step forward, 2 steps backwards on the new Pro2 (my impression).

I will be buying an Ultimaker S5.

Thanks,
Michael

KS_Husker
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby KS_Husker » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:45 pm

I'm in the same boat. I was really excited about the Pro2 but with all these heating issues I keep reading about I'm not so sure anymore. I have started looking at my other options now too. Sad, but true.

Shelton
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Shelton » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:34 pm

Mine PRO2 works perfectly with some minor issues. But maintenance and build quality should be better - improved!
And support is going the right way in my opinion. If they repair some bugs who knows. Time will tell.

Heckler
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Re: 4 Reasons we're waiting to buy the N2 Pro

Postby Heckler » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:16 pm

Im in the same boat, been reading these forms for a week now (my 1st post) and was really considering the N2 Pro but after all the issues it seems to be having Im forced to look for something else. I will NEVER be satisfied with a machine in this price range where I will need to print on a raft to get a successful print, I wont use rafts.. ever. After reading of all these issues with simple PLA material Im afraid the machine would never work for me, I almost never print PLA, mostly carbon fiber nylon or PC that require higher heat. Its sad, the Pro looks so good and has a great build size and still uses 1.75mm filament (I have thousands of $$ in 1.75 filament) and the investment to replace it all along with a new printer I may as well get an SLS printer.


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