Cold nozzles reading 240° C

claytony565
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby claytony565 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:14 pm

I had the same problems on my Pro2. I ended up re-seating the thermistor cables inside of the top green terminal boxes. For whatever reason they were installed with one cable crossed over the other one. Every once in a while the printer would shift just right and cause those two wires to come in contact with each other and cause false readings. Since re-seating those wires it has been a week and a half and I have not had the issue.

Thanks Jetguy for your always thorough explanations, they help people like me really undertsand how this printer functions. I was hoping it would be as easy as a firmware update, but it seems not.

Brock
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Brock » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:15 am

I'm having the same problems on my Pro2 as well. Both nozzle temperatures will occasionally jump around during printing. A few weeks ago I tried re-seating the thermocoupler wires in the top green terminal boxes and it seemed to have worked for a couple prints, but now the temperature fluctuations are back. I tried narrowing it down and now I'm thinking it has something to do with the three heavier black wires with the connector. Moving around the 14 pin plug doesn't do anything and it doesn't seem to be the thermocoupler wires either. Only by jiggling around the 3 black heavier wires does the temperature jump around. I don't know if that would make sense or not.

This whole issue has been very frustrating. I can't really do any long prints until this gets fixed.

DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:25 am

Updated to Raise Touch Version 0.9.11.6151 and had several successful prints but now the nozzle readings get stuck at 41 C and regardless of which wires I jiggle or adjust I can't get the extruder/nozzles to heat to start a print job. Am wondering if the "Added temperature check for CPU of screen logic board under Maintenance" which shows "51704" in the display has anything to do with this? I'm going to unplug the printer overnight and see if a cold start works tomorrow. Any other ideas to get it to warm the extruders so I can get it printing again?

Jetguy
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:55 am

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9746#p34304
Stop attempting to print or heat until you understand this serious safety issue. You have a warning sign right now in your symptoms. If you choose to ignore it, wiggling the cable fixes your error- that's not actually fixing the problem and is setting you up for a failure mid print. That failure in a mid print situation can lead to a thermal runaway where a heater is stuck on because the reported temp is below the set temp.
Again, please understand, you have an intermittent cable failure right now. This is compounded by a motherboard that should be throwing a safety error in this state and it not because it cannot physically detect that you have a failed temperature reporting issue. This depends on you the user to recognize this serious safety situation and take action.

#1 any machine on the 3D printing market with a set of wires to the moving extruder head can have a failure from flexing. The head moves millions of times, that's opportunity for wear and tear. Put another way, you should expect the cable to fail. Be glad when it lasts as long as it does. Yes, under ideal conditions we expect it to last a relatively long time before failure (my oldest machine is 2 years old without a cable failure). Yes, absolutely, a minor defect on assembly of the cable chain and minor details could lead to premature failure. Nobody wants that to happen but short of taking the entire cable system apart, putting it together "your way" and knowing you did it could prevent this failure as pictured in this thread. Absolutely, if Raise 3D assembled it and contributed to early failure, they should be covering cable replacement.

#2 Given what I just said in #1, this is why the OTHER discussion is happening. Nobody wants a cable failure. That said, it can and WILL happen. So this is why the more recent discussions on the modification and safety board keep popping up. It's one thing to have a cable failure. It's whole different ballgame when a failure is NOT immediately detected within seconds of the failure.


Again, the issue is 2 problems. #1 cables are failing on low hour nearly new machines. The #2 problem is that when a cable fails, the mainboard is completely unable to detect the cable failure at a hardware level. Changing firmware will not fix this problem. It's a hardware problem. The reason why this is such a big stink is this same "mistake" was made on the N series and is now happening on the Pro2 series- meaning nobody learned from the lesson previously. Last time, it cost them sales, reputation, frustration with customers and that led to them having to offer the protection board modification free to all owners. Now we have a carbon copy repeat of the same situation.
Last edited by Jetguy on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jetguy
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:59 am

Also, this is not just me saying this. Raise 3D tech support actually said the same thing, just not as verbose.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9746#p33556 and
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Please do not heat your printer temporary until we find the issue, as your nozzles are not read proper temperature now.

Note: If any user find any abnormal temperature reading, please do not use the heating function until the issue being fixed. Or it may cause overheating.

DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:53 am

Attempting to continue is no longer an option, regardless. The printer will not heat either nozzle but does heat the bed. This is a production machine and will sit idle until there is a fix. The good news is I have ten Zortrax M200s to take up the slack so at least it won't put me out of business but let's get this fixed ASAP...please! Submitted /updated Support ticket........

DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:25 pm

For what it's worth....... I've had the Pro2 for less than 2 months and according to the DashBoard stats: 40d 14h 14m of print time, Material used 9.33kg and Files Printed 116. Let's get this fixed! And thank-you Jetguy for raising the alarm and being so helpful.

Jetguy
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:22 pm

DavidBarwin wrote:For what it's worth....... I've had the Pro2 for less than 2 months and according to the DashBoard stats: 40d 14h 14m of print time, Material used 9.33kg and Files Printed 116. Let's get this fixed! And thank-you Jetguy for raising the alarm and being so helpful.

FWIW, I waited on posting this, I contacted Raise3D as soon as there was enough evidence and reports of other users failing and enough technical information i could be confident in my analysis. I called Raise 3D and went straight to the top with my findings and concerns, offered to fix this problem for absolutely free and provide them with the engineering data and test results. That said, I'm not buying a $4k printer just so I can fix a flaw. I offered to buy the control board set, since that is all that is required, but they neither had spares (not listed in the store and they swore they literally don't have a single spare board in Californinia) nor would they sell me a set.
So again, short of showing up at a users house, or dropping $4k on a printer I don't need to spend $4k on just to fix- that's where we stand.
Heck, I even gave them all this time to make a post address the issue and say"We're working on it and here is our plan to implement a fix".
I've had to resort to strong arm tactics to help you fellow owners.

DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:13 pm

Where are you located Jeyguy? I'm in Denver and could make my Pro2 available if need be.

Jetguy
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:19 pm

DavidBarwin wrote:Where are you located Jeyguy? I'm in Denver and could make my Pro2 available if need be.

I'm quite far away- Charleston SC.

IMDIMA
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby IMDIMA » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:28 pm

Same Problem here in one PRO2 and one PRO2+, I'm testing right now the third another PRO2
Raise3D please take this problem seriously and bring solutions quickly

DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:02 pm

Since the temp readings are no longer errant for me I'll post a new topic "no heat" to extruders. I can't heat them to load or unload filament or print. Perhaps they can trouble-shoot that?

Prop-Fiction
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Prop-Fiction » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:33 pm

Yes I have the same Problem after 2 weeks without Ribbon Cable issue .

Shot a ticket and now I want a solution for this problem or Take the printer back!

What’s Next Raise3d
Es gibt kein das „geht nicht“, immer nur eine Frage des Geldes oder der Zeit.

Schlaf wird überbewertet.

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Prop-Fiction
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Prop-Fiction » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:46 pm

hello Vicky,
Can you answer the following questions in the middle?
I think that at the moment everyone who has this error has to get answers. So please ask in the technique and answer our questions:
1. Can you understand the bug with the ribbon cable in your experiments?
2. Are you already working on a solution? ? This will probably be a hardware solution.
3. what is currently your stand on this error. ? what have you found out so far, which he occasionally occurs and then disappears again?
and please try to answer the questions. Each of us has paid a lot of money and is behind you after all. Nevertheless, a solution must now come to this error.
Es gibt kein das „geht nicht“, immer nur eine Frage des Geldes oder der Zeit.

Schlaf wird überbewertet.

My Costume website
http://www.prop-fiction.de

DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:01 pm

Tired of waiting for a reply to my support ticket I called and talk to support. At their suggestion I disable the motors and moved the print head around and in the back right position the thermocouples jumped to life. Support says its a bad power cable to the thermocouples. They aren't sure they have a replacement. Less than 2 months on this Pro2 and there's a cable failure........ not a good sign.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:29 am

Prop-Fiction wrote:hello Vicky,
Can you answer the following questions in the middle?
I think that at the moment everyone who has this error has to get answers. So please ask in the technique and answer our questions:
1. Can you understand the bug with the ribbon cable in your experiments?
2. Are you already working on a solution? ? This will probably be a hardware solution.
3. what is currently your stand on this error. ? what have you found out so far, which he occasionally occurs and then disappears again?
and please try to answer the questions. Each of us has paid a lot of money and is behind you after all. Nevertheless, a solution must now come to this error.


1. We currently find that the issue can be recreated by either loose connection of the Ribbon Cable or defective cable.
2. We are currently developing a software solution and doing internal testing to figure out how many situations it can handle.
The hardware solution is under discussing. We are trying to find out the best scheme and design for this.
3. If the issue cannot be fixed by reconnecting the ribbon cable on both sides, Ribbon Cable is possibility needed to be replaced to be a new one.

DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:46 am

Thank you Vicky. Please keep us up to date as we are all rightly concerned and when we don't hear about your progress we become even more concerned. Additionally, please consider using those of us that are having this issue in your testing of the solution prior to general release to save time and insure it's validity. Kind Regards, - David

Prop-Fiction
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Prop-Fiction » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:22 pm

Hey Thanks,
I got contact to OKM and they send me a new Board and Cable.
I hope this will help.
Thx a lot !
Es gibt kein das „geht nicht“, immer nur eine Frage des Geldes oder der Zeit.

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DavidBarwin
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby DavidBarwin » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:20 pm

Anyone else having this issue may want to check the heater power & return cable at the motherboard to see if exhibits a faulty connection as mine does. See video: https://youtu.be/ZOEWxFWa7cs
Last edited by DavidBarwin on Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jetguy
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Re: Cold nozzles reading 240° C

Postby Jetguy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:08 pm

DavidBarwin wrote:Anyone else having this issue may want to check the thermocouples cable at the motherboard to see if your's shorts as well. See video: https://youtu.be/ZOEWxFWa7cs


That's the heater power and return cable not the thermocouple cable.
Second, knowing a short from an open circuit. You are wiggling the plug while a heater is heating, and so when you make and break the connection of 24V there is a spark. That is entirely different than a short circuit.

I'm not saying it's not broken, I'm saying collectively, lets properly state the fault and all get on a basic level of understanding.Honestly, I just want to see users aware of this and all the problems and see Raise 3D get serious about solving it rather than letting this fester.
Last edited by Jetguy on Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.


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