Just Released N2 Pro

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
Jetguy
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:25 pm

@Vicky
Thanks for the replies and I think this comment "We are still defining the final tech specs." is meant for a next gen N2 series, but what about the tech specs of the new Pro series currently preorder status? The machines are built and being shipped. It's a bit late to be in the tech spec defining stage.

#1 what firmware is used on the new 32 bit board?
#2 will that firmware source be seen on Github?
#3 What stepper drivers are used on the new control board? (256 microsteps is not the detail we are looking for)
#4 What are the details of leveling the new 2 moving nozzles system? How does one adjust this? (Not seen in the current user guide recently posted)
#5 What details to address cable flexing concerns have been addressed? I mean if you say there are more sensors and potentially a motor or other electronics, isn't that making even more potential wires in the current cable harness that flexes and moves every time the extruder heads move in XY?
Are all cables failures detected with custom error messages? Example, if the filament detector cable fails- does that then stop the print and notify the user what cable failure is suspected?
The moving nozzle system- what additional wiring exists for it?
Pro_Wiring.jpg

#6 is the filament detector really mounted right above the extruder? How many segments complete in gcode before pause is activated?
Pro_filament detector.jpg


#7 since the photo shows new nozzles that do appear slightly different than current nozzles, with hard coated versions also be sold (AKA V2H)?
Pro_nozzles.jpg


#8 The HEPA filtration system- Is that filter widely available and 3rd party sourcing, or is this proprietary and only sourced from Raise 3D direct? Also, are most of these new features going to be 3D printed housing, ducts and brackets on the new machines as shipped starting this month?
air filter.jpg

Pro_airfilter.jpg
Pro_airfilter.jpg (24.33 KiB) Viewed 4672 times

I just have to be honest here for a second, while I know the new boards are very nice (filament detector, new control board), I get the feeling these new features feel like DIY upgrades the community or anyone could design. All of the photos show 3D printed brackets and housings. As a consumer, if I'm buying a Raise 3D because it's a heavier built printer with more aluminum in the frame than other brands entire printers, I expect that quality and attention to detail in the rest of the features. I'm just seeing a mismatch here. Example is, over time, I know that the LCD control box started off as hand built CNC'd and glued together parts, then hand sanded and painted. Later, injection molds where created as production continued and volumes and finalized designs became practical. Maybe that's the deal here, this is the $1k more expensive model than previous pricing, so while there are compromises (printed parts and other details) the user is getting the latest electronics and other designs at a discount. There is always a delta of change, production changes happen, it's just a fact.

Please, other users, see what I'm saying here. If you had a to buy your first printer and did not already have an existing Raise 3D printer (thus a $2k+ investment already), then yes, the new features sound compelling. Heck, If I had $4k just sitting, I might even buy one today. Moving dual nozzles is an often requested feature because of theory that it's the new best way to prevent some of the other problems with dual extrusion. But, like anything else, this is all new. Then there is this new focus on garnering new customers, new business markets. You are literally aiming at less technical folks who are expecting far less adjustments, technical troubleshooting, and more click and print not unlike a paper printer. I'm not fully convinced this plan is going to work. Yes, upgrading the mainboard and making the new machine less upgradeable to the user potentially limits tech support because now the user can no longer plug in a stepper driver in the socket backwards and blow the mainboard. Yes, filament detection is often discussed and a must have feature- but simply detecting out of filament and doing it at the entrance of the extruder knowing full well that's a bit late with a real limit of how much "safety room" you have before filament is actually out and air printing is possible. Again, I think the feature list is a selling point on paper. I think some of the upgrades such as the new bed surface and mounting look quite professional and are worthy upgrades. Other parts of this (moving nozzles, filament detection, upgraded stepper drivers and 32 bit processor) are far less proven (again, as implemented, I fully acknowledge new stepper drivers and processors are proven in other brands). Do I think the sum of upgrades is justified by the price increase? Yes, given a Bondtech dual feeder from the factory, given the new heated bed, given the moving nozzles system, the filament out detection. Upgrades that seem gimmicky to me is the air filtration, the optical endstops, printed housings, and some of the other details of the upgrade. To me, if your start trying to put $ figures on those items, they just aren't that big of a deal. And there lies the rub with current users. They feel like these are all things they requested for their current printer and investment, and shouldn't be forced to buying a new machine.

Also, now I'm really going to open the taps.
I was a beta tester for the camera. Let's call it alpha. But keep in mind, what I'm about to share is a point in time. I was given a camera and the beta (but seriously, it was alpha at best) matching set of Raise 3D touch Raisepack and the corresponding version of Ideamaker with camera support. It had cool features like timelapse. Don't get me wrong, you folks keep requesting it and it was definitely interesting.
But, there were some facts that might turn you off. Example was, the camera was capturing at 320x240 resolution. There was no way to move the captured images off the printer. That's why I'm calling it alpha and take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. What I tested and what is actually shipping may not be the same thing. It was nice to see them working on integration and it was nice in the control panel and so forth. Maybe the resolution was just limitations at the time. So of course I made recommendations and must have feature lists and sent that to raise 3D with literally not a word of feedback. They never sent me another beta firmware update, they never showed me the new actual camera (again, I was given a very early prototype) and never spoke to me again. So yes, call it bad blood, I'm just telling you the facts to the group you should maybe question. I also tried about a half dozen USB webcams and found one that worked- a bunch that didn't. This was due to the app being hard coded in the capture commands and that very specific resolution (32x240) which many higher megapixel cameras did not support. Even went as far as toying with configs and so forth- trying to inject the capture commands.

What resolution is the camera?
What resolution is actual video feed?
What resolution are still pictures?
Can you transfer or capture the timelaspe? (beta could only be viewed on the printer)

Again, if it were me, I'd be asking a whole lot of hard questions surrounding this feature given all that I know.
I'd want to know exactly what was implemented today in the software and firmware. I what to know what may not work today, but is planned for features.
I'd be asking for guides and examples of transferring that timelapse off the printer and or how useful it really is if only on the printer.
Maybe all this is taken care of, this is the miracle you all think it is, and you'll be just overjoyed at the camera features.

What I'm telling you is, the ship has sailed. This isn't about me getting a printer to evaluate, this isn't about money. It's about the fact the new model is shipping, it's on the boat on the way here. The time for feedback is way too late in the game. Buyers are going to feel slighted no matter what at this point. Recent buyers aren't happy and upgrade jealous (but really folks, I'm saying temper that thought). Users buying this pre-order really should be asking a lot more questions before dropping your hard earned cash. Put simply, the current product page is all the buzzwords they feel new buyers want to hear. The actual technical specs are lacking, the pictures are nice, but do have a pre-production beta test unit "this is what we could build" kind of feel. As a buyer dropping $4k-$5k before shipping and taxes I think we need a rethink here.

Again, 2 facts I absolutely, support- the Bondtech extruder and sure from a value and improvement the heated bed changes rank up there justifying the new model and pricing.

The features I question of on paper VS reality is the moving nozzles but does play into the cost increase. It sounds neat, you users keep asking for it, but is it really the miracle you think it is? What about all the other "what if"?? What's different when you have to adjust this? What's different when you have to repair or change a nozzle? What about 3rd party nozzles? What could go wrong? What does go wrong?
Again, I see phrases like this:
High repeatability. (<0.005m, 5 micron).
Light speed, <1 second switching time.
1.5mm lifting distance, compatible with flexible filaments.
Over 100,000 times reliability test passed.

But what matters is when this hits your hands and skillset.


The stuff I consider fluff is the weak filament detection integration, the air filter is just straight gimmick in my book, optical endstops I feel pretty non-impressed from a change standpoint. While the new mainboard is good- I'm not yet ready to call the stepper drivers an upgrade until more details come out. Different yes- but again, the marketing fluff is so vague, it's sad and pathetic. The current TMC2100 is already 256 microsteps in marketing speak. Yes, A4988s were use for Z and the extruders, so you could refer to an upgrade of them to TMC2100 or equiv- but is that really that substantial of an upgrade? Again, if we already have 256 microsteps for XY now- what's really being said????? The processor speed is literally just bragging rights. How that equates to any tangible printing quality or speed gain is all firmware and architecture dependent. Yes, faster is better, but to put a $ value on what that means is beyond vague and unproven. I'm not saying don't buy it, I'm saying don't make that your primary decision point. I'd love to be wrong on this point, really, that's nothing but good for you if i'm wrong, you get this great new upgrade and I get egg on my face.

Power outage second generation? I have to question how much of that is firmware update VS actual hardware change? What is really that different about it? If it's supposed to be a selling point, shouldn't that be far better explained?

newraiseuser
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby newraiseuser » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:23 pm

Isn't it easy to just make a Pro machine with the longest axis in the x or y direction?

Jetguy
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:28 pm

newraiseuser wrote:Isn't it easy to just make a Pro machine with the longest axis in the x or y direction?

You completely lost me there. A Pro machine is an N2 or N2 Plus with new mainboard, new endstops, Bondtech extruder, moving nozzles, filament out detection, webcam, and air filter.
If what you mean is different build area options, no, non square build area and larger build area do not scale well with the UM gantry design of the N series. N2/N2plus is about as large as 8mm rods can be spanned.

By definition, it's a Dual extruder model as no reason for moving nozzles on a single nozzle printer. So call it a model or whatever, but it's a specific version offered in 2 sizes, N2 and N2 Plus.

There is talk about other models, called a different model because the feature set is different.
Example is, sure, you could have an N1 dual extruder in "Pro" trim, but given the low number of N1 units sold, given the price, given the other competition in the 200x200x200 build volume space (Ultimaker3 cough, cough).
N2 and N2 plus are both bigger than many other models sold.
You could do a single extruder version pro- but that omits the moving nozzles and Bondtech absolutely did make a single extruder BMG style recently announced I'm installing today, but Raise 3D may not have bought them. So it would be single extruder, no moving nozzle, filament detection, new mainboard and stepper drivers, air filter, and camera. But then we get into pricing, and well, it gets interesting with fragmenting the market like that.

What I'm saying is, let's understand what the Pro is.
If you want a dual extruder that is larger than the Ultimaker 3, you want lifting nozzles, Bondtech extruder, latest mainboard and stepper drivers, filament detection, air filtering, and webcam- all factory done- then the Pro is your machine. On that front, it's a good deal and the new heated bed is a really nice touch. The price difference seems reasonable over a standard N2/N2Plus dual (roughly $1k).
If you itemize those upgrades:
Bondtech Dual $200
Filament detection $89
New mainboard 32bit and new stepper drivers $200 (given a Duet Wifi is $169, I think this is a fair valuation)
Heated bed system upgrade $200
Moving nozzles system with 2 hotends $300
$10 for optical endstops

So going back, again, you can take any current N series and get to a similar place.
Not everything is 1 for 1, but the big items, again, doable.
Put a Bondtech on it, single or dual
Come up with your own custom heated bed if that's your thing
Bondtech shared with me a video of an alternate moving nozzle system in Beta testing for 3rd party upgrades. Not sure when or cost- but promising. Just saying, this Pro feature, others are working on it so there is more than one way to skin a cat for existing owners.
Upgrade the stepper drivers rather than swapping the entire mainboard $20-$50 depending on doing just XY or all 5.
Slap in your own IP camera- it may be better or worse- all depending on what you want and what features are shipping (questions still not well answered today).

If we are going to have a debate, a good one to throw around is that how modular is the new extruder compared to the UM3 system?
I mean clearly, the moving nozzles is an intent to compete with a feature on the UM3. Pro series is bigger build volume similar features there are some differences and Raise 3D does have some advantages, but one thing I hinted at before- the change and market scope Raise 3D is aiming at.
UM3 has a plug in extruder hotend "module". Basically, it's near idiot user proof. You pay for that feature, and you start to get into sole sourced or specific upgrades, but again, it's a module that plugs in. I've seen some 3rd party upgrades specific modules- but again, the cost- it's a complete module.

Raise 3D is still using a discrete system of components for the hotend. Individual heater cartridge, thermocouple, all connected with screw terminals to the breakout. Arguably, it's less novice friendly, more tech support and troubleshooting. The advantage is low cost. If all you need is a new hotend, that's $80. If you need a nozzle, that can be individually changed. UM is designed as an assembly or module. Raise 3D, the user has screw terminals, bare wires, setscrews, and tons of other details. If it was to be more "novice friendly", and more consumer like, the change would be more like a UM3 modular hotend system.

Also, if talking and comparing. Even the UM3, even if I'm painting it in a certain light here as the competition, Bondtech still makes an extruder upgrade for it, and to my knowledge, Ultimaker is not shipping with that upgrade from the factory.

I guess what I'm saying is, at least from everything I know, the new Pro is a good deal for a user buying a new printer.
I have no idea how viable this model will be in terms of sales, if it instantly obsoletes or they quit selling the current non-pro, how it competes in the global market for this size and feature class of machine. It could be if it does not sell well, or if more user input and changes come, then a new model and direction. I'm just trying to point out (and a way too late) that if the goal was more corporate and school and business users, it's a mixed bag. Yes, you have the moving nozzles. No, the extruder still isn't modular and "idiot proof" so right there, I see conflict in complexity to get a feature, but when it breaks or needs adjusted- how much will this backfire? Yes, you have filament out detection- but is that as implemented really the final answer? Yes, the Bondtech should have been the standard. Yes, the heated bed upgrade- really, this is what should have been standard. The camera- well that's a fun debate and even I wait to see what really happens there, what it cracks up to be.

Again, if I was buying, even with what I'm saying, I'd still buy a Pro VS saving a few $ and trying to hand upgrade an existing N2/N2Plus.
For all I know, I would either love or hate the moving nozzle thing. It might never get used in my workflow, or maybe it's the greatest thing ever, but the one thing I do see if that if a user can break a current hotend- they can break the heck out of the pro. That's simply because you can see it in the pictures, the throat, the heater block, the nozzle, the heater and thermocouple have not changed. The extruder breakout is the same. I know how to use these parts like the back of my hand- but a little search here and weekly, you see at least one user knee deep in troubleshooting and parts breakage, leaking, stripped screws and downhill from there.

But, that's also a slope there in that for an existing owner, don't consider your machine now completely obsolete.

Jetguy
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:03 pm

Hey, also, I missed this but it's good question.
The price between the N2 Dual and the Pro2 is roughly $1k ($2999 VS $3999)
The difference on the N2 Plus VS Pro2 Plus is more like $3899 VS $5999 a difference of $2.1k

For a buyer at this exact second, the Pro2 makes sense, in fact a good deal.
The Pro2 Plus- for all the reasons I questioned, coupled with this massive $2k difference in price, whats the intent here?????
Maybe I missed some major detail, it's entirely possible that some detail justifies it, but it does make me question and I cannot be alone?

FreedomRules
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby FreedomRules » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:11 pm

bwulfe wrote:
FreedomRules wrote:I hope raise3d will sell the print heads and the new bed. I tried buying some dglass3d auto raise heads but they said they no longer mfg the 1.75 sized unit nor had any left even in just parts. I've been thinking about doing the mod someone on here did for as an overkill bed upgrade. I've tried several times and it just seems impossible to get the stock bed level.


The retractable heads are without question, the most appealing aspect of the Pro2 that I would like to retrofit. I have searched the web for options; but haven’t seen anything that I felt confident about being able to retrofit to the N2.

While a slight improvement over the N2’s design; I was somewhat disappointed to see that the Pro2 still relies upon the Factory Leveled” bed. If it ever goes out of level, or you need to replace the heated bed; their system is a nightmare to re-level. I’m giving serious consideration to TobyCWood’s spring mounted bed leveling mod (on Thingiverse), most likely in combination with a BLtouch auto-level mod; but I need to do a bit more research on the BLtouch and reach out to some of the users who appear to have successfully integrated that mod.


I just assumed the new bed was going to be ground up new with a thick plate and 3 point leveling system since there existing bed in my opinion was a failure. I just looked at the specs also and it still only heats to 110C anyway. I think I'll just go with modified version of Socke's bed viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1590. He went with a 220V heater and I don't want to have to run 220V to the printer so I'm going with a 110v heater. Do that and add the BLTouch bed leveling both mods seem pretty straightforward and not to complicated.

FreedomRules
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby FreedomRules » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:19 pm

Jetguy wrote:Hey, also, I missed this but it's good question.
The price between the N2 Dual and the Pro2 is roughly $1k ($2999 VS $3999)
The difference on the N2 Plus VS Pro2 Plus is more like $3899 VS $5999 a difference of $2.1k

For a buyer at this exact second, the Pro2 makes sense, in fact a good deal.
The Pro2 Plus- for all the reasons I questioned, coupled with this massive $2k difference in price, whats the intent here?????
Maybe I missed some major detail, it's entirely possible that some detail justifies it, but it does make me question and I cannot be alone?


I would assume the Pro2 being a single head unit doesn't have auto lift. While the Pro2 Plus having 2 heads does. Although an additional 1k more for lifting heads seems to be an awfully steep price to me. The auto lift Dglass3d units were only $135.00 a piece. On top of that being a Gen1 auto lift for them they should have offered it at a lower price point especially if they have issues. You don't see to many Gen1 products that are such a success that buyers were super happy about the purchase. Gen1 is usually reserved as a learning curve for the mfg. Why not price it as such.

newraiseuser
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby newraiseuser » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:32 pm

I would recommend Raise3D to make new printers with features based on users' requests. Both sides will benefit.

Jetguy
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:55 pm

FreedomRules wrote:
Jetguy wrote:Hey, also, I missed this but it's good question.
The price between the N2 Dual and the Pro2 is roughly $1k ($2999 VS $3999)
The difference on the N2 Plus VS Pro2 Plus is more like $3899 VS $5999 a difference of $2.1k

For a buyer at this exact second, the Pro2 makes sense, in fact a good deal.
The Pro2 Plus- for all the reasons I questioned, coupled with this massive $2k difference in price, whats the intent here?????
Maybe I missed some major detail, it's entirely possible that some detail justifies it, but it does make me question and I cannot be alone?


I would assume the Pro2 being a single head unit doesn't have auto lift. While the Pro2 Plus having 2 heads does. Although an additional 1k more for lifting heads seems to be an awfully steep price to me. The auto lift Dglass3d units were only $135.00 a piece. On top of that being a Gen1 auto lift for them they should have offered it at a lower price point especially if they have issues. You don't see to many Gen1 products that are such a success that buyers were super happy about the purchase. Gen1 is usually reserved as a learning curve for the mfg. Why not price it as such.


???
Pro2 series is dual extrusion. There is no single extruder variant (yet). There are 2 heights Pro2 is N2 305mm. Pro2 Plus is N2 Plus 605mm tall.

newraiseuser
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby newraiseuser » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:57 pm

What is the electronic driven lifting feature for? Is it to prevent the 2nd extruder from hitting the prints?

Anybody knows why the N2's single extruder option is no longer available in the online store anymore?

How come the Pro2 and Pro2 Plus do not have single extruder version?

Anubis
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Anubis » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:30 pm

newraiseuser wrote:What is the electronic driven lifting feature for? Is it to prevent the 2nd extruder from hitting the prints?
Yes.

newraiseuser wrote:How come the Pro2 and Pro2 Plus do not have single extruder version?
Answered by Vicky earlier in this thread:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
easysofts wrote:You wrote, you are working on an improved single extruder version of the N2 series. Have you more information about this ?



We are still defining the final tech specs. For the time being, we can only inform that it will be an
improved version of the N series, with a single extruder and a price point lower than the Pro2 series.

Jetguy
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:57 pm

newraiseuser wrote:What is the electronic driven lifting feature for? Is it to prevent the 2nd extruder from hitting the prints?

Yes, in a nutshell, the entire point.

Anybody knows why the N2's single extruder option is no longer available in the online store anymore?

Could and likely is what I said earlier, they may have stopped making N2s and what you see is existing stock. Just so happens all dual extruders were built and that's what is left.

How come the Pro2 and Pro2 Plus do not have single extruder version?

I thought I made that pretty clear in my several long posts. They are bundling several upgrades/changes to change the market of who they are selling printers to. Since the stepper drivers and new mainboard aren't really that enticing (my opinion), since the Bondtech is already a 3rd party upgrade, since the competition has a price point and feature set, given there is a profit margin for the original hardware design, the single version doesn't make a lot of business sense. But back to my question, same thing, Pro2 Plus VS Pro2 doesn't make sense either.

Raise 3D has basically said, with this preorder thing, it's about gauging the market. If 100 people today emailed them and demanded a single extruder, it might come on the table.

bwulfe
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby bwulfe » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:58 pm

3DWP wrote:I try to look at this thing from both sides, as a user/consumer and Raise3D's side.
Anyway, as any N2 owner I really hope to see at least the retractable nozzle as an upgrade. I have been thinking about changing this myself somehow but haven't begun yet because it isn't simple I think.


Ditto that!

bwulfe
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby bwulfe » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:10 pm

Jetguy wrote:
FreedomRules wrote:
Jetguy wrote: You don't see to many Gen1 products that are such a success that buyers were super happy about the purchase. Gen1 is usually reserved as a learning curve for the mfg. Why not price it as such.


I couldn't agree more. My KS N2 Plus came with V1 Hot Ends. I paid a steep upgrade price to obtain two V2 Hot Ends. I later discovered that those turned out to be what I call V2 Beta Test Units. The design was later upgraded to a more refined & better tooled unit. The Heat Sync was completely redesigned (changed from a 2-piece unit to a single block and they actually installed a setscrew in the heat sync hole. The screw attachment pattern also changed, providing a better, tighter fit.) After upgrading (again) to the later design V2 Hot-Ends (purchased via a 3rd party site; since Raise3D store listed as out-of-stock) I found that the current design assembles and aligns much better than my original V2 Hot Ends ever did. My early release V2 Hot Ends were virtually impossible to assemble & keep square. (The throat tube would not screw down completely, unless the flat surfaces of the throat were at an approximate 30 degree offset from the straight sides of the heat block and heat sync. (virtually identical offsets on both hot end assemblies) The only way to get everything to align completely was to screw in a nozzle, extremely tight to prevent any movement. Unfortunately, as soon as I began to heat the nozzle, the metal expanded and the heat blocks began to twist around. On many occasions, the dual heat blocks would end up touching; which screwed up dual temperature, dual material prints.

Considering the fact that many of these upgrades are not cheap; it would be nice if they at least offered some form of incremental discount system, rather than asking early adopters to pay for engineering corrections. JMHO.

SpaceNinjaPirate
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby SpaceNinjaPirate » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:39 pm

Hello everyone!

Long time listener, first time caller. I'm not yet a Raise3D owner, but I've been lurking on these forums for almost a year gathering info on Raise3D's printers for the time I would one day own one myself.

At any rate, I got pretty excited when I read about the new Pro2 & Pro2 Plus models... but then started to think about some of the noted improvements. As a prospective buyer (at some point in the future), I was going to post my own questions but see that Jetguy managed to beat me to it, albeit a lot more verbosely than I would have.

So, if I may, I would like to wade in on this conversation as well. The one main concern that I would REALLY like an answer to is one that Jetguy touched on here:

Jetguy wrote:Hey, also, I missed this but it's good question.
The price between the N2 Dual and the Pro2 is roughly $1k ($2999 VS $3999)
The difference on the N2 Plus VS Pro2 Plus is more like $3899 VS $5999 a difference of $2.1k

For a buyer at this exact second, the Pro2 makes sense, in fact a good deal.
The Pro2 Plus- for all the reasons I questioned, coupled with this massive $2k difference in price, whats the intent here?????
Maybe I missed some major detail, it's entirely possible that some detail justifies it, but it does make me question and I cannot be alone?


I have to agree wholeheartedly. Why such a HUGE price difference between even the Pro2 and Pro2 Plus? Is Raise3D somehow assigning a dollar value per inch of height thinking that with this printer, a business/professional user could theoretically make $X amount more than merely owning a Pro2 (as if EVERY print that a professional does will somehow take advantage of that extra height)? What's the justification?

You've already set the precedent stating that extra foot of build height is worth about $900 to go from the N2 to the N2 Plus. There don't appear to be any "build height dependent" improvements on the Pro2 series, so all things being equal, how does it now cost $2000 for an extra foot of build height from the Pro2 to the Pro2 Plus?

Ben Roj
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Ben Roj » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:24 am

I heard from local reseller that Ultimaker is releasing Ultimaker 3 XL with 30x30x30cm build area soon.

I agree that it will be a pain to disassemble the new pro extruder when get the filament jam, just look at all the cables and parts (filament sensor) and small servo motor to control the dual extruder mechanic.

One thing that Raise3D does not advertise is that they change the touchscreen manufacturer to be of better quality come with 2 USB ports while the SD card and all other slots get removed. The touchscreen is more responsive.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:03 am

bwulfe wrote:
Considering the fact that many of these upgrades are not cheap; it would be nice if they at least offered some form of incremental discount system, rather than asking early adopters to pay for engineering corrections. JMHO.


For Kickstarter backers, we will provide a special discount of 8% for printer backers, and 5% for nonprinter backers. Shoot an email to us at inquiry@raise3d.com to receive more information on how to claim this special discount. This will be valid until September 30th of 2018.

newraiseuser
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby newraiseuser » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:25 pm

Jetguy wrote:
newraiseuser wrote:What is the electronic driven lifting feature for? Is it to prevent the 2nd extruder from hitting the prints?

Yes, in a nutshell, the entire point.

Anybody knows why the N2's single extruder option is no longer available in the online store anymore?

Could and likely is what I said earlier, they may have stopped making N2s and what you see is existing stock. Just so happens all dual extruders were built and that's what is left.

How come the Pro2 and Pro2 Plus do not have single extruder version?

I thought I made that pretty clear in my several long posts. They are bundling several upgrades/changes to change the market of who they are selling printers to. Since the stepper drivers and new mainboard aren't really that enticing (my opinion), since the Bondtech is already a 3rd party upgrade, since the competition has a price point and feature set, given there is a profit margin for the original hardware design, the single version doesn't make a lot of business sense. But back to my question, same thing, Pro2 Plus VS Pro2 doesn't make sense either.

Raise 3D has basically said, with this preorder thing, it's about gauging the market. If 100 people today emailed them and demanded a single extruder, it might come on the table.



Under Technical Specifications, the single extruder version is listed.

newraiseuser
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby newraiseuser » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:25 pm

Ben Roj wrote:I heard from local reseller that Ultimaker is releasing Ultimaker 3 XL with 30x30x30cm build area soon.


How soon will that be?

ziteac
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:10 am

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby ziteac » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:32 pm

Jetguy wrote:
Anybody knows why the N2's single extruder option is no longer available in the online store anymore?

Could and likely is what I said earlier, they may have stopped making N2s and what you see is existing stock. Just so happens all dual extruders were built and that's what is left.



A week ago I was ready to pull the plug on purchasing a N2+. However this thread has me concerned on moving forward especially after this statement by Jetguy.

So is this a true statement and if so how long will Raise3D support there machines even after the warranty has expired with replacement parts. Spending this price I would expect support for at least 3-4 years at "my cost" of course.

I personally cannot justify the cost difference of the PRO2, as the only TRUE upgrades that make it worth while is the extruder and the new bed. In my case the bed isn't that big of a deal and I can purchase the extruder for $200. There other items in "my case" is trivial. Now if there where larger rails or upgraded frame or something that made it beefier then I can see it.

Again, however my concern is future support.

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Casale8
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Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Casale8 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:58 pm

I didn't read it anywhere, but I 'm hoping that the Raise added the functionality for the printer to shut off when a print is finished.
something that should still be able to be done with N, N2, and N2+.
-SCC
“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.” -R.A.Heinlein


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